Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Have you ever walked away from a moment, big or small, thinking, I should have had my partner's back? Maybe it was a comment you didn't speak up against. A social setting where you stayed quiet, or just a moment where your partner needed support and you missed it. It happens. But here's the good news. With the right skills, every one of those moments is also an opportunity. A chance to show your partner that you're on their team, that you've got them, even when things are messy or unexpected. And when you consistently show up like that, you build the kind of relationship where both of you feel seen, safe and supported. In today's episode, we're walking you through a simple five step process to help you show up for your partner in the moments that matter, whether it's in front of others or behind closed doors. This is how you build emotional safety and become each other's safe harbour. Let's dive in.
People were always telling us, you guys are such a team. And we began to realise this just isn't the case for most couples.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: But we knew from our own experience of turning our relationship into a team that change isn't just possible, it's inevitable. All you need is a little direction.
[00:01:10] Speaker A: So that's what we do on this show. We steer you in the right direction. We keep it simple. We show you why relationship struggles show up and how you can start changing your relationship today.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: And we bring the good stuff by turning information from leading relationship experts and evidence based research into easy to understand skills and tools that anyone can use.
[00:01:29] Speaker A: We also share insights from our own 23 years of experience together. And we chat with some incredible couples who offer their wisdom on relationships.
[00:01:36] Speaker B: If a better relationship is what you want, then get comfy in whatever tickles your pickle. As we prepare to dive into all.
[00:01:43] Speaker A: Things team, we're Kim and Rog and this is the Living the Team Life podcast.
[00:01:52] Speaker B: So in the 90s, there was a movie called Sliding Doors, I don't know if you remember, had Gwyneth Paltrow in it and she gets fired from her job.
And as she's racing towards the train to catch the train home in the middle of the day, distraught, she misses the train and then it sort of goes.
And then it has a moment where she actually then catches the train, like an alternate reality, like an alternate universe. And you know, because this is what they call a Sliding Doors moment and her life, the rest of the movie is pretty much her life going down two different paths where, you know, the one where she catches the train, something terrible happens, but it changes her life for the better. And when she doesn't, when she doesn't make the trade, that terrible thing doesn't happen to her and as a result she doesn't grow and her, her life actually becomes worse.
And it got me thinking, you know, not just about Gwyneth paltrow and awesome 90s movies, but it actually got me thinking about a big one, which is when we haven't had our partners back and, and you know, when we have had our partners back, you know, so when we haven't had our partners back, like it, whether we've been in a social situation, whether in front of the in laws, our friends or they're just, you know, maybe telling us something real vulnerable and raw and we've said something or we've acted in a way where we've really let our partner down and we haven't had their back and we just wish we hadn't said it or we wish we'd acted in a different way.
And you know, this is where the thoughts of, you know, sliding doors moments come from because we wish we had like a do over button, right? We wish there was a sliding door where we could re live that moment and do the thing that was right, you know, because you know, it sort of got me thinking about all the times that I haven't had Kim's back and I just wish I could, I wish I could do them over again, you know, because I love her so much and I want her to be happy and you know, I wish I could change the way I acted and I wish I really could have just Gwynethed it.
[00:04:15] Speaker A: So yeah, I think the Gwyneth Sliding Doors, great movie by the way, analogy that you've used here, Rog, is a really good one because whilst having your partner's back probably to some people doesn't feel like, or sorry. Not having your partners back in certain moments, probably to some people doesn't feel like that big a deal. The reality is that it can be a very big deal in a relationship because having your partner's back is, is all about the fundamentals of a relationship. And I talk a little bit more about that in a minute. But the, the, the reality is I have had a couple of really serious incidents I can think of where friends have come to me and been absolutely devastated that their partner hasn't had their back when they've really needed them. And it has, it has affected the trajectory of the relationship. And that's what that sliding doors analogy is. Saying that when you don't have your partner's back, you, you send the relationship on a different trajectory. And whilst, you know, we're not as dramatic as saying one incident, one small incident of not having their back, maybe with a family member or whatever would do that alone. Certainly a build up of not having their back or if it was a big enough incident, if it was a big enough breach or, or a failure to support them, that could definitely have a larger impact. So, so on that, let's, let's talk about what, what, why it's important to have your partners back. And I guess that's why I was saying this is such a big issue. Having your partner's back is emotional security in the relationship. So if we think about ourselves as individuals and, and we go back to sort of, you know, because at the end of the day we're all just, we're all just animals trying to survive in this world. It sounds brutal, but it's true. And we hear a lot these days about, you know, we're trying to find safety really at our core, we are always trying to find safety. We are just over, over millennia wired that way because that's how we lived longer. And so even in our relationship, and especially actually I should say in our relationship, we're trying to find safety because that is one of the spaces where our system says if I feel, if I can feel safe here, I can relax for a little bit, I can have that moment of let down and that, that moment of, of feeling relaxed. When you don't have safety around you, you are constantly on and that is extremely exhausting.
So it really is about having your partner's back, is about keeping that sense of emotional security and safety in the relationship, which is one of the core reasons people get into a relationship. They want to feel safe with that person, they want to feel safer in the world in general. That's just how we are. It's, it's self motivated. It really comes down to the individual wanting to feel safer in the world. And they want other things as well. They want engagement and growth and connectivity. But, but without emotional safety, everything starts from safety. If you don't have a sense of safety in life, in your relationship, you won't get far because everything else will be seen through a lens of, of threat and fear. So if you want to grow, if you want to develop and evolve in life, you need safety. So just, if you hear one word, just hear safety. It helps them to feel safe in the relationship. If they feel safe in the relationship, they feel safer in the world. That's what they, we, we use relationships for. It' One of the fundamentals of relationships is it builds our sense of safety in the world.
So what does the research say about this? Well, exactly, really what I've just been saying, which is that emotional security is the, is the basis of a thriving relationship. When partners consistently have each other's back, they create what we term the safe harbor, which is a relationship where both people are able to feel protected, prioritized and emotionally held. And this is where I said this is where people launch into life from when we have, you know, in terms of our needs, when we have safety taken care of, we can go and do other things. If you don't feel safe in your relationship, that's all you'll be focused on. There is nothing else because safety comes first. Again, as humans, that's just how we're biologically wired.
So when we do have that sense of safety, yes, it allows you to grow and live your best life. But the other part of that is it actually allows you to navigate life stresses from a place of safety. If you come at life stresses from a place of, of or a sense of feeling unsaf, those stresses are going to be seen through the lens of threat and fear, and they're going to be a thousand times worse if we experience life stresses from a space of safety. So a safe relationship where our partner and ourselves, we have a sense of safety, we have each other's back, we are able to manage the stress far better. Our nervous system is able to process far better. So even though we will experience the stress, we will experience an activated nervous system. It's able to restore itself to homeostasis basis, to that sense of, of levelness far faster than it would if you were coming at something from a sense of threat or fear or feeling unsafe.
[00:09:41] Speaker B: We should feel safe at home, right? Like if the, you know, if there's anything in this world where, you know, the, the world's a tough place and to weather the storms of life, you really need to feel safe at home. And that means you feel safe with your partner and your children. Now, kids are kids, right? Like, it's really not about feeling safe around your kids. So how do you feel safe? You feel safe around your partner and you feel safe. And fundamentally, one of the ways to feel safe around the partners know they've always got your back, they're always there for you. So why don't we always have our partners back? You know, we love our partners, you know, we're in strong relationships. And yet There are still moments where we fail to step up. We fail to show them that we have their back. And we do this by staying silent, being dismissive or maybe prioritizing something or someone else.
Now, Esther Perel has a view on this and she believes it's really about stepping up through action, not. Love isn't just an emotion, love is an action. We've talked about this. You know, it's one of our, you know, key pillars that love is a doing word because many people assume that they're having their partner's back is automatic. But in reality that having your partner's back is a, it's a conscious effort and it's a choice because it's a scenario that you have to think about, be intentional about. And then you have to choose the right path forward. And, and it's not easy to always choose the right path forward, especially when it doesn't quite either gel with us or maybe we haven't thought it through or maybe we're having trouble being empathetic. So some other reasons might be, you know, some of the core drivers of that might be we're too caught up in our own little world. Especially like, you know, when we're trying to manage the k, when we're trying to manage work stress and our parent, you know, our partner sometimes can come last. And so we're not thinking about them, we're thinking about what's the impact on me or what's the impact on the kids or what's the impact on work. Some of us are conflict averse. So we don't, we don't, you know, if we want to step in, if you're required to step in in a tense situation either with your partner or backing them up in public, you, that might not be your natural inclination. It might be quite difficult for you.
Maybe your partner is someone who's really strong and, and where you assume you don't need them to step in, they don't need you to step in for them. But you know, I think what we're going to come to, the collusion is often you, you actually do, whether you, you don't might not think you do. You know, sometimes we disagree with them and we hesitate because we, we don't want to take this side publicly because we're like, well actually don't, don't agree with that.
And I think a big one is also, it's like sometimes we see the problem scenario as an individual problem or a problem with them as opposed to a team problem. And this comes back to the, you know, the me versus you instead of the team mentality, where all problems are team problems.
[00:12:37] Speaker A: I think what's really key out of that, what you just described there, Rog, was the.
The doing word part. So we hear people say, but of course I've got your back. I'm your partner.
[00:12:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I love you. Of course I got you.
[00:12:53] Speaker A: And I think that is a real misunderstanding in relationships and a common misunderstanding that you don't have to show that you have their back, that you don't have to show it publicly, that you don't have to show it in private. It's. It's a given. When I'm in a relationship with someone, I'm committed to you, therefore I have your back. And I think when we think about it through the lens of Esther Perel's, love is an action, it is a verb, it's a doing word. We have to actually show it. That's exactly what we're saying with, if love is a doing word, then so are all the parts that make us feel loved, which includes having our back. So that means you have to. Actually, we have to. Anybody listening today, if you want to think about one change, you know, it's. Do it. You have to do the having your back, not just, oh, yeah, that's great, I do have their back, or that's great, we'll talk about having each other's back. No, no, having someone's back. You can write down examples of when they had your back.
[00:13:47] Speaker B: They need proof, they need evidence. They need to be able to look back at a catalog of all your actions as opposed to all your words.
[00:13:54] Speaker A: Exactly.
So that sort of takes us to what happens if they don't show up and, and do it. If they don't show up and have your back actively, proactively in situations, and if they do, maybe rest on the laurels a little bit and think that, well, it's just a given in this relationship that I have your back. Because we're a partnership, when our partners don't have our back, you think it's going to lead just to sort of that moment of disappointment which I talked about before.
And you think it's not that big a deal. But it certainly has given the seriousness of having your partner's back in terms of your sense of safety, it has the potential to really start to erode your emotional connection. It. It is something that very much affects people at a core level because it is associated with safety. You're meant to their sense of safety, their safe harbor. If that gets Eroded. There's nothing more threatening to a human than to feel unsafe. And that's why I know I'm harping on about it, but it is that big a deal to people. So the first thing that sort of shows up is people feel emotionally exposed. You know, like, I'm out here, I'm. It's like, it's like being emotionally naked. I'm out here, I'm needing help. I'm needing someone to hold my hand or pick me up or, or support me. And there's no one here. Even though the person I want to most do it is right, right there. They're right there and they're not doing it. And so that sort of leads on to these questions that can show up in the relationship. You know, why don't they have my back? You know, can I really count on them when it matters? Are they going to do this again? And, and as people start to ponder these things, they're now in a space of unsureness in the relationship. And when we start to enter of unsureness in the relationship, so we're shifting out of that. We're a team. We know we're on the same page. We know we're moving forward together. We know we have each other's back to, am I alone in this? Is this really the right relationship for me? Are they ever going to have my back? Are they going to have it when I really need them to? Then you start to perceive all of the actions that your partner is, is making through that more negative lens. And so you start lashing out more or shutting down, because instead of seeing something small and saying, oh, that's something small. It's not a big deal. You see it through the lens of negativity. Well, this person doesn't have my back either. So that little thing is now a big deal because it's on top of not having my back. And so you can, and you, you can really start engaging in the relationship in a more negative way yourself. And obviously that, that's just the beginning of resentment brewing. And we all know that once resentment kicks off, it's, it's, it's, it's like a fungus. It just grows. It just builds. And it's what, it's, it's because of what I'm saying. Fungus, once it starts it, it's in a habitat which just grows it and it keeps mushrooming out further. Resentment builds really quickly because you start seeing everything through the, the lens of resentment. And once you're in that space, there's not much you're going to see from a positive lens. So in the end it's, it's a sense of you've lost trust in the relationship. And if you don't have trust in the relationship in the space, your home. As Rog put it, where as humans we, we want safety the most and need safety the, the most, it makes it very hard to continue.
[00:17:31] Speaker B: Yeah, this is great quote from Sue Johnson, the renowned couple psychologist. And she says when we know we have a secure bond, we can take on the world. When we don't, every challenge feels heavier. And I think, you know, considering what you just said, that's, that's, you know, you can see how, how not only it could impact your relationship negatively, but it also has the opportunity for real, positive take as well.
[00:17:58] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Love this quote. It is one of the joys of building a secure bond and attachment in your relationship. One of the joys and benefits of having a great team. You can take on anything because even if you fail outside of the relationship, you're coming home to safety. As long as you're coming home to safety, you're going to be all right. That's all we're looking for, is some sort of surety in life, some sort of belief that we're going to be okay. And when you think, well, it doesn't matter what I do out there because in here I know I'm okay, you literally will try anything. Risks don't seem so scary anymore. And, and the absolute opposite is true. If, if that sense of safety has been eroded at home, if you don't feel like your partner has your back, if that's starting to build that sense of resentment in the relationship, it feels almost impossible to take on risk and challenge and grow outside of the relationship. Because what are you going to do if you fail outside? You're coming home to an environment you also feel like you don't feel safe in. So that means the potential is that you're not going to feel safe anywhere. It's a real double edged, that's not a double edged sword. What is it?
[00:19:16] Speaker B: I don't know.
I used to call it the vice grip, right where you know, you've got pressure from work, you've got pressure from the outside world and then you come home and then you've got pressure from the, from the people you love there because you don't feel you have their back. You can't, you can't go and, and lay down all your troubles and rest and recover and hit the day with full strength and all the outside stresses at your full capacity the next day. And so you feel like there's this pressure from both sides that keeps building, building and squeezing and squeezing. But we don't want to get to that point, right? Of course, we want to make this as easy for you as possible to step up in the relationship. So using research from leading relationship experts, we've put together a simple five step process you can use in any situation. So you can be like Gwyneth in the movie and have that sliding door moment where you can choose to step up and show support as opposed to miss the opportunity and let your partner feel alone. Alone. So step one of this five step process is read the moment. What is actually happening in this moment. Sometimes it's obvious that your partner needs your back. You know, your family's, you're at the in laws and your family's having a crack at them or, you know, you know, they've come home and their bosses told them that they're no good or something like that. Other times it's more subtle. You might notice that they're shutting down a bit, that, you know, you feel like they're quieter than usual or they look uncomfortable. You know, it's really your job to be, to be attuned in this situation. You know, think to yourself, does my partner need me here? This seems out of the blue and I'm telling you, like, generally, if you get that gut feeling, it's probably right. You know, you know your partner better than anyone else. It is also important to understand this is a role that's expected of you. I don't need to go into bat for Kim. She's, she's highly confident, highly capable woman. However, I am her partner and I will defend her to the hilt. So how do you do this? Well, pay attention to body language, pay attention to tone, be aware of the situation, be attuned. Ask yourself, are they being challenged? Ignored, dismissed, struggling? And if you're unsure, you can always give them a quick nod like, hey, are you, you good? And you don't have to say anything. And you'll know pretty quickly.
[00:21:33] Speaker A: All right, step two, take their side. Even if you don't fully agree, this one is a really important one and it's a difficult one. It's not the easiest, especially in private when you might be thinking, what are they on about? They seem so erratic or difficult today. That's exactly when you need them to stand, when they need you to stand with them, not against them. It doesn't mean you're saying they're a hundred percent. Right. It means that in that moment you're showing solidarity first. And this is particularly important in public, involving friends, family, co workers, any sort of social settings. Your role is to back them up first. Because what you're doing there is saying, you're emotionally safe, I got you, I've got your back. And you can talk them through the rational stuff later, but if they feel unsafe, they. Unsafe, they can't hear any of the rational stuff anyway. If in public you say to your partner in front of everyone, say, they're getting, there's six of you and four people in the six group are disagreeing with your partner and you can see they're getting worked up and they're feeling, they're feeling attacked, they're feeling like their point isn't getting, getting across. And you think, I could see both sides of this. Maybe I'll explain both sides. No, don't do that. Just support them. It's not about saying they're right, but it's about saying, you know, maybe you just say, I can see her side of the argument, you know, and if you feel like it's both sides, you need to talk to them about later and say, you know, maybe there was, there was a bit in the other argument. Fine, do that later. At that point, they're already starting to feel insecure. You can see the overwhelm. So if you pile on and give them more reasons to feel insecure, they're not going to hear anything else in that situation. They won't have even heard what anyone else said. All they heard was that you didn't have their back in that moment. Moment. I know some people are going to be thinking when I say this, well, I don't want to just blanketly agree with my partner. It's not about blanketly agreeing with your partner, it's about blanketly supporting your partner. So I've always got your back. If I can see you're overwhelmed or I can see you're struggling or whatever it is, you know, if, if I'm having a debate with someone in public and Rog sees it and I'm fine, then he just lets me debate it out. I don't need him to step in at that point. Point. But if he feels like he can see, look, she's getting a bit overwhelmed by this, then, then he'll step in and give me a little bit of support. You know how to do that? Exactly that. Physically step in, even just step in and give them a rub on the back. You alright? You know, it says, I'm here with you. We come as a team. Avoid correcting them and minimizing their feelings in. In front of other people. Exactly what I said before. There's no need to correct them or show devil's advocate in that moment. They're not gonna. They're not gonna manage that. So just be the partner that they need, harbor they need. And. And make sure you offer their. Sorry, you acknowledge their emotions before offering any sort of different perspective. And this is probably more of a private space suggestion. So, you know, you don't want to be having detailed emotional conversations with your partner in public. That's. That's not fair. But if in private, you guys are having a. A situation and you can see they need you to have their back, and you guys are on a different page at that point, at least start with acknowledging their emotions, because it's saying, I do put your emotions first. I do have your back in that space. The rational conversation, we might have different perspectives, but in terms of where I see you and how I want you to feel, I want you to feel safe.
[00:24:51] Speaker B: Yeah. There's a purity to step two, you know, taking their side, even if you don't fully agree, because that's what being a team's about. It's about having their back no matter what. And how cool is it that your partner would see that, you know, they had your. You had their back. And then afterwards you go, oh, yeah, look, I didn't agree. And they go, oh, wow, you didn't agree, but you. You stood up for me there. Or you said you did. I was like, yeah, I'm your teammate. I've always got your back. So step three, you've got to take action. You have to show and. And don't just say and that's what we talked about. This. Esther Perel's Love is a doing word. It's all about action, not just emotion, not just about words. You know, you have to step in, you have to step up. Whether it's speaking up, defusing a situation, stepping in physically, or offering practical support. So if they're being criticized, defend them. If they're struggling, take something off their plate. You know, if they feel uncomfortable, step in and redirect the situation, you know, and even put a hat, as Kim said, put a hand on their shoulder. An example of this be. Maybe there's a mum from school who everyone knows is a bit of a bulldozer and bulldozing everything in front of your like and bulldozing your partner in front of everyone. At a social sports event, you Know, the wrong approach would be to sit back and let it happen and then afterwards go, oh yeah, that sucked. The right approach would be to step in and say, hey, Sharon, that's a bit much. Can we start again? I want to hear what everyone has to say.
[00:26:15] Speaker A: All right, step four, check in and feel. See if your partner felt supported or if they feel supported in the moment. So this is really about. You've shown them that you've got their back in the best way you, you feel you can using those tips. We've just given you steps one to three.
Step four is really about asking, did I, did I do okay? Have you got what you needed? And this is a really great relationship tip because a lot of people feel like, well, I've already done it, why would I need to ask them? Because sometimes we get it right and sometimes we don't get it right. Sometimes we get it semi right and we could do it better next time. This is all gonna build your skills. Remember, we, we talk non stop about the fact relationships are literally just skills.
We don't get given these as children, we, we learn from the people around us. And then as we grow into adults, we have to somehow learn as we go. And we learn through a lot of, a lot of error, to be honest. So use this person you've got right there who's going to give you live feedback on, on what you did well and what maybe would have helped them even further in the future. So even if you think you've handled it really well, just check in. And do you know what the benefit of this, this isn't just going to build your skills. It's another emotional connection point. When you check in and say to someone, I care about whether that worked and whether that supported you. Again, you're saying, I've double got your back, I've got you back, I've got your back straight up. And I also have your back ongoing. Like, I want to grow for you, I want to be the best partner for you. What an amazing feeling when your partner's just been vulnerable with you. Not only have you stood up and had their back, you've then also said, I want to continue being this way, I want, I want to be the best at this. How amazing would they feel after that? I mean, the level of intimacy and connection you'd have after that is incredible. So how do we do this after stepping in and having their back? You can ask them, did that help or is there something you might have preferred? Something different? You know, please let me know. I'm here. I want to have your back. If they say they felt unsupported, don't get defensive. Just adjust for next time. You know, even if you want to apologize, sometimes when we apologize, it's not because we necessarily 100% think we're in the wrong. Sometimes we apologize because it makes our partners feel seen that it wasn't right for them. It's not about us being wrong. It's about understanding that it wasn't right for them. And we can feel, when we say sorry, we can feel compassion for them. I feel compassion towards you. I'm sorry for you that that wasn't right for you because I love you and I would want that to be right for you. And if they do say you got it right, you know, reinforce that they can count on you anytime. Take that win and double down on it. Yeah, you, I've got your back anytime.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: That's right, sweetie. So step five is reinforce. Make sure they know they're always safe with you. So you've just circled back at the end of the scenario and so you've just checked in with them. Hey, did everything go well then? Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't go about that the right way. I tried. Or did that work for you? And they've said yes. Thanks, you're amazing. Oh, I think we could try better next time. Either way, you should end up and close this off with I'm always there for you.
Reassure them so your partner never has to wonder if they can count on you or not. Yes, the actions are important, but it's just closing it off to say, I'll always be in your corner. We are a team. So that's the five step process, guys.
I'll just run through it again. Step one, read the moment. Step two, take their side, even if you don't agree. Step three, take action. Show. Don't just say step four, check in with them to make sure they felt supported. And step five, reinforce your commitment to always having their back. And remember, this process can be used in all scenarios. It doesn't matter who is right. It doesn't matter who is wrong. It doesn't even matter what the specifics of the situation were or are. At the end of the day, your partner should feel like they have a teammate, not just a spouse. And that's what it means to truly have their back.
You're amazing. You've just spent quality time on your relationship.
[00:30:36] Speaker A: Feel like you're on a roll. If you want more living the team life relationship insights and conversations, head over to kimandroj.com where you can find all the show notes as well as tons of other relationship goodies.
[00:30:47] Speaker B: And if you liked today's episode, please hit subscribe or let another couple know where they can find us. It'll make them happy and it'll make us really happy.
[00:30:55] Speaker A: Until next time, keep on living the team.
