Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:02 Being relationship proud. It's more than just a phrase. It's a commitment not only to your relationship, but to who you are as a person. It's not about grand gestures or lofty ideas, but the everyday decisions that over time build up our identity. So how can this mindset guide you to more fulfillment in your relationship? Let's dive in, explore and understand how you can start moving towards being relationship proud.
Speaker 2 00:00:32 Hey, we're Kim and Rod, and we're here to show couples how to get the best out of their relationship so they can start living their dream life together.
Speaker 1 00:00:38 We're a west Aussie couple who are living the life of our dreams. We don't entertain the word should we think about the future as a field of possibilities, and we let joy be our compass.
Speaker 2 00:00:47 We've taken the simple idea of working as a team and applied it to our marriage, and it's been a game changer, allowing us to work out what truly lights us up in life and to go after it together.
Speaker 1 00:00:56 From living in snowy Japan to starting our own house ripping business, we've achieved some big dreams, and most importantly, we feel fulfilled and are having the most fun we've ever had.
Speaker 2 00:01:04 Pick conversations from inspiring couples, thoughts from relationship experts and tales from our own lives. As we help you to gain the wisdom and skills you'll need to turn your relationship into a real team. These are
Speaker 1 00:01:15 Relationship conversations for real people buy real people. So sit back, get comfortable, whatever tickles you, pickle, and enjoy living the team life.
Speaker 2 00:01:31 So today we've got a slightly different format because I really wanted to explore Roger's concept of being relationship proud. And I say Roger's because he did come up with it, <laugh>, and it, it's really beautiful when he talks about being relationship proud, what it brings out in him and the person he is when he uses this term. I really admire him in that space and I thought it would be beneficial to share that. And it didn't really make sense for me to talk on the topic because it's not something I've come up with. It's not something we've come up with together. This was really something Roger came up with on his own. So yeah, today I'm actually going to interview Roger on what it means to be relationship proud. So yeah, let's kick that straight off with that question. Let's start right there. Roger, what does it mean to you to be relationship proud?
Speaker 1 00:02:32 Well, first of all, Kim, thanks for having me on the show today. <laugh>. <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:02:37 Oh my God, so
Speaker 1 00:02:38 Good. Okay. Uh, so actually I guess I'll, I'll I'll start with the story. And it's actually fairly recent. So yes, this, I've had this concept of relationship proud for quite a while, but there was a great, I guess example of how it works the other day. So I went to, um, a Perth barbecue school, which was awesome with a few of my mates. Uh, you, you pretty much go from, you know, before lunch till till, uh, uh, early evening and you just cook barbecue all day and you eat barbecue and you drink a lot of beers. So it's pretty much, you know, paradise. And we had such a great day, had an awesome time, but it was a bit cold and windy. And not to get into the, the details of barbecuing, which is literally what I did for a whole day. But I said to Kim, I would be home at around 5 30, 5 40 and this place is on the other side of the city to us.
Speaker 1 00:03:38 And at about 10 to five at night, they hadn't put out all the food that we'd spent all day cooking, even though we had, we had, uh, cooked our lunch as well. And it was because this is all low and slow barbecue, and it just taken it a bit longer than, than it had. And I said to the guys at the, and I, to my mates and also the guys run the show, I go, guys, I I'm gonna go at five o'clock. I've, I've gotta go. Or within a few minutes of five o'clock, uh, you know, I might not even be able to eat. And of course my mates were just like, nah, mate, you know, Kim won't care, whatever, it'll be fine. And I actually messaged her and Kim was like, oh, you know, stay, stay, babe. Stay. It's okay. And for us, you know, we, we have dinner at a certain time every night, 5 30, 5 40, because it really structures our daughter's day and she's autistic, non-speaking.
Speaker 1 00:04:29 And so routine and structure is so important to her regulation, which means it's important to the regulation of the household. My, my relationship with gis, it's, it's very core to what we do. So it was important that I got back for five 30. Now I end the food ended up coming out like two minutes to five, and I just asked, can I pick up a, a takeaway container and, and go. And then the boy's like, are you sure? And I'm like, yeah, do you know what? I made a commitment to Kim and to my daughter that I would be home at five 30 and so I'm gonna honor that commitment. And so I just took some takeaway containers home, and while everyone else sat and had a few more beers and ate, I was in the Uber back home with my, with my barbecue.
Speaker 2 00:05:16 So what about that exactly is relationship or was a relationship proud for you? What in that moment?
Speaker 1 00:05:23 So I guess I could have framed it to my friends and to the people at the barbecue is, oh, bloody hell, my wife wants me home, or I've gotta get home for Kim. You know, she wants me home. I, she, she, you know, oh, you know, she's, you know, she's saying she wants me home, she's blowing up my phone. But instead I framed it as in, I made a commitment to her. I made a commitment to family and I'm someone who follows through on my commitments. I'm owning that and I'm not only owning it that I'm content with that. And I actually don't feel the FOMO that I used to feel when I was younger if I had to leave early or miss out on something.
Speaker 2 00:06:01 Can you break that down a little further for me?
Speaker 1 00:06:04 So I guess what I'm saying is that the fact that I'm relationship proud actually influences my decisions. So it helps me make better decisions, you know, um, as a husband, as a father, and I guess as a man.
Speaker 2 00:06:20 So when I hear that, I hear you are taking more responsibility, is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1 00:06:27 Yes, but I actually think, I think at its core it's more about identity.
Speaker 2 00:06:34 Okay. How does that come into it?
Speaker 1 00:06:37 So I, I love the concept of that. For every action you take, you are either moving towards the person you want to be or away from the person you want to be. So I'm either doing something in that moment that takes me closer to who I want to grow to be, or who I am in my identity, like, which is a man with a strong relationship with my wife, or I'm, I'm doing something that actually takes me away from that identity. So
Speaker 2 00:07:07 Those principles are, um, coming from act, what you're talking about is the moving, the choice of moving water away with each decision you make. And I love this as well, and I think, uh, maybe I taught you this originally when I explained the acceptance and commitment therapy principles to you. There's such a beautiful simple way of checking in with yourself in each moment that what you are deciding, the decision you are making is aligning with who you see yourself at your core as. Right? And when we, when we live like that, we live a far more aligned, genuine life to who we, we are. I can see that. What about that is, I mean, I can see the appeal myself, but what about that is so appealing to you?
Speaker 1 00:07:50 Well, it's just simple. We can often say, I want to be A, B, and C, so I want to be a good husband, I wanna be a good father. I want to be a strong role model and a good friend. But how do you get there? Well, this sort of principle of every action you take is either, you know, a plus or a minus. You're either moving towards it, away from it is just a simple way for me to, I guess, conceptualize that. Yes, over time, brick by brick, I'm building to become a better man, a better father and a better husband, or brick by brick, I'm pull, I'm taking down that building, I'm pulling down that wall.
Speaker 2 00:08:27 Oh my God, I love that. That is just such a great visualization, isn't it? Building up your, your home base, your your world that you want as you want it. And I, I love that the brick by brick, it's, it is one foot in front of the other. Every decision we make impacts whether we're heading in the direction we wanna go or not. I am sort of curious though, like how then does that relate to pride or being relationship proud? How does that sort of come into that, that space that we've just talked about, those dec those decisions we are making that are either more aligned to who we see ourselves out as or, or not so aligned?
Speaker 1 00:09:05 I sort of was thinking about it, maybe this is a few years ago now in terms of, you know, when people said they used to be house proud, you know, I think for a lot of people, your house is the, uh, something that you work towards. It's the largest investment in your life or again and again in your life. And in many ways it's recognition of the hard work you or you and your partner put in to your life, and especially back in the day. And I think for a lot of people now, it, it's a big achievement. And I think really if you are proud of something, it means that you are proud of something you've achieved. You know, you've, you've gone to set out to do something and you've achieved it. And I think a good relationship, you know, and you and I have a great relationship is something to be proud of because it takes a lot of work. I mean, sweetie, you and I have been working on our relationship for 22 years, and if you work on something for 22 years and you do a good job and you're not proud of it, that that just why you working on it in the first place?
Speaker 2 00:10:08 So true. I love that You would wanna be proud after 22 years of what you're doing, you would wanna see pride coming through in all the decisions and actions, or at least the majority of decisions and actions you're taking. Otherwise, why are you still here? It's 22 years of your life. The only thing I'm sort of thinking as I hear that is, and this is just something that's popping up for me, I don't know if it's popping up for other people, but the word pride itself can have like a sense of negativity around it, those negative connotations, because I think it gets associated with ego. And we talk a lot about ego in a negative sense these days. How do you sort of reconcile that with your idea of being relationship proud?
Speaker 1 00:10:52 You know, ego shouldn't be a dirty word. I don't, I don't think ego is fundamentally bad. I mean, if you want to go back to psychology, it's uh, it's actually a self-protection mechanism to keep us going when again, life gets tough and people are, you know, hitting us from all angles. And we need to get through the hardships of life and keep going through those hardships. But to me, being prideful or having an ego, the difference is good pride and having a good ego is about confidence. But confidence that is based in evidence, based in like quantifiable action, you know, while a bad ego for example, is confidence based in a lack of evidence based on nothing, you know, there's no foundation to your confidence. So like you're saying Bolt, he was a confident guy, he had a massive ego, but there was evidence to back it up. He had multiple gold medals, three Olympics won the a hundred meter and 200 meter sprint, and of course he did it with a smile as well, which I think also helps
Speaker 2 00:12:04 <laugh>. Yeah, definitely. What a legend he was. Uh, okay, I think I'm getting my head around it. I'm just sort of maybe, I think for our listeners, can you paint an overview of what it means or how, maybe how someone becomes relationship proud? What does it look like? What's the shift in their life to, towards being relationship proud?
Speaker 1 00:12:32 I think the, the shift is, and I'll just talk from pretty much literally what I did, and I think it will, you know, be fairly common for most people is the shift was someone going from just being in a relationship and not taking any accountability for it, treating it as a second thought, or assuming that it would just take care of itself versus someone who takes responsibility for their relationship. Being relationship proud means I'm more likely to take actions in my life and do things in my life that show that I'm prioritizing the relationship. So the decisions I make show that the relationship and being a good husband and a good father is more important to me than really anything else.
Speaker 2 00:13:19 Ooh, I love that. I mean, that's what gives me tingles, and I think that's why I enjoy so much when you talk about being relationship proud, and I'm glad you've broken down that ego part for us as well, because, you know, there was always a little bit of me that was like, oh, there's something in that word that doesn't quite sit right. But I, I think I wasn't giving that word enough depth or enough complexity in, in what it's meaning can be. So for me, hearing you articulate how you see yourself, your identity, uh, how important it is for you to align with that identity as a good father and husband. It, I mean, I <laugh> I feel bonded towards you right now because I share those same values obviously as a, as a mother and a wife. And taking pride in that is, is special because it means you're committed to it.
Speaker 2 00:14:13 So if I've got this right, let me try and summarize this because I know people are going to be trying to make sense, going to be trying to make sense of this. And it is, it isn't a, it isn't a super simple concept, it kind of is when you get used to it. But let me outline what I've understood from what you've said. There's sort of three key things here. First is to make the relationship or make the decision to put the relationship first. Second is making in the moment decisions which align with this choice of putting the relationship first, which you've also said has become part of your identity. So you're making in the moment decisions which align with who you see yourself as and who you wanna be moving forward. And then the key to all this is owning those decisions that you're making that align with your identity, that align with your decision to put the relationship first, to be a good husband and father owning those decisions with pride, because they mean you are moving towards who you see yourself as you are. You are aligned and living up to what you have said you want.
Speaker 1 00:15:22 Yeah, I think that's pretty much in a nutshell. Although what I'll say is that, um, it's not just in the moment decisions, it's also about longer term decisions as well, like your planning and your future decision making, even though you should be doing that with your partner, that is all aligned with, well, if I put my relationship first and I'm someone who identifies as someone who puts their relationship first and is relationship proud, well I've gotta make sure that my, you know, decisions I make about my future and our future are, are fully aligned with that as well. Um, yeah, I think that, I think that's great actually. And I, I think what you said about people still trying to get their head around it or thinking it's too much about ego or, you know, relationship pride isn't just like about PDAs, right? Like public shows of affection. It, it's actually about a public show of responsibility and commitment to the relationship. Oh,
Speaker 2 00:16:18 Sorry, I just give you a name. <laugh>. Yes,
Speaker 1 00:16:22 That was a good Oprah. Amen. Okay, so, um, so like an example would be if you are in a social situation with your mates or you know, you can be a relationship proud as as a woman, a hundred percent I hope, I hope you are. Uh, you are often put in situations where you could say, you could sort of not take responsibility and you have to go spend time with the kids or do something for the wife and you can't go on a golf trip or you're at the pub and they say, stay for one more beer. And it's so easy to go, nah, my wife doesn't want to me, I don't want to do that. But when your relationship proud it, it seems, it makes, means it's a lot easier to, to make the right decision for not just you but your whole family and, and your life going forward.
Speaker 1 00:17:10 Because I think if you're not relationship proud and you don't have that that linked into your identity, you may be at risk of making, you know, those more selfish or socially correct decisions to look better around your mates or other people because you've chosen to be in a relationship. And I think, you know, for me now relationship prior is so ingrained that it's not even a choice. It's like a, an automated response. It's, it's like a habit. Uh, what I said at, at the start about, you know, when I was coming home from that barbecue with the takeaway containers on my lap, knowing that the boys were still still sinking beers and eating, sharing their barbecue together was, I literally just didn't have any fomo. I didn't have any regret, you know, because it was so aligned with the man that I knew I wanted to be.
Speaker 2 00:18:01 I mean, that's what I'm hearing, really hearing as you're talking right now that I think is super important. It is the owning of the decision, being relationship proud gives you the permission and gives you the position to own your decision because sometimes people will make the decision that does align, right? So they'll come home, but they won't own that decision. So using your example of the barbecue, they'd turn to the mates and say, oh, you know, the wife's dragging me home. And then inside themselves, internally, there's this conflict because that is who they wanna be, but they're not owning it. And so you end up in this state of conflict in yourself, but if your relationship proud, everything lines up. I am relationship proud, that is the man I wanna be. I've made the decision that aligns, I'm owning that decision.
Speaker 1 00:18:46 Yeah. It's not just because the consequences are gonna be so much worse. Like I think some guys are like, oh guys, I'm gonna get home. They might not blame it on the wife, but they'll sit there in a bit of fomo. And part of it's just like Jays wolf, I don't go, there's gonna be a big blowup at home, which is different too. I'm going because that's the person I am. Yes. I'm someone who makes my commitments. I put someone who follows through on my commitments.
Speaker 2 00:19:07 Yes. I love that ownership. That's so, that's so awesome. Uh, okay, the other thing that's sort of playing on my mind as we're going through this is I think a lot of people are going to, going to find that they would struggle or have struggled to, to be relationship proud. I don't think this is a common concept, is what I'm trying to spit
Speaker 1 00:19:29 Out. It's brand new, Kim, I'm trademarking. It is serious. <laugh> are you gimme time to get, gimme time for it to go through the social ether. Geez. So much pressure. Trademarking it. Okey dokie.
Speaker 2 00:19:40 Um, why do you think people aren't already living with this concept? Why isn't relationship proud just standard already?
Speaker 1 00:19:49 Yeah, I think there's definitely guys out there who, who are doing what I do and em embracing this and, you know, see themselves as a good husband, as a good father, as you know, they, they see their relationship as something to be really proud of. But I think generally there's just a social norm that if you are proud of a relationship and you put it first, that you're under the thumb. You're not an independent person. And so that's embarrassing, that shameful. And it seems ridiculous, but that people think, well, he's not in control of his own life. But you know, if you actually took a step back, you'd realize that no, he has someone who is have full understanding of his life circumstances and has control of them and lives his life around them, lives life on life's terms. He isn't under the thumb, he's actually hand in hand with his wife. And not only that is he's more independent and has more agency and control of his own life than the other blokes who are still at the pub saying, oh, I can't believe old mate went home to his wife because he has actually made a decision that's aligned with his values.
Speaker 2 00:20:57 I mean, I just, I'm like, I love this so much. It just, it lights me up because we all wanna live a life at peace where our actions reflect who we see ourselves as. That's, that's what this is at its core. It's like you said, living hand in hand. It's about, and I don't wanna get too lofty, but it's about harmony in life, feeling peace. If you turn to your mates and say, oh, the wife's making me come home, you're not in harmony with the decision. But if you turn to your mates and say, this is the decision I made because it's right for my relationship and I had this agreement and it's what I want to do to be the person I see myself as an excellent father and an excellent husband, I'm in, I'm in peace. You have no fomo. You live your deliberate, connected, free freest possible life because you have deliberately made that choice. You didn't give that power over to someone else in that situation that completely and utterly belonged to you. And you made that decision. You have be decided to be relationship proud in that moment and do what you said you were gonna do.
Speaker 1 00:21:57 Another great example of that actually was something that I used to do is, you know, I wasn't fantastic with money. I'm, I'm actually really, really good with money now. Uh, you know, but it took a lot of time and effort and work with you. Uh, but you know, if I couldn't afford something, maybe I'd either what, you know, ring it up on credit or I'd make some excuse. And now if I can't afford something or do something, oh, it's not an issue. But what I did in the meantime, sort of between then and now is if someone was like, oh, why don't you come do this? Oh, it's a, a day out. It's only 250 bucks. It's this, that and the other. I'd go, nah, it's not in my budget. And, and I just, 'cause I was like, ha, it's not embarrassing to be someone who understands their constraints, understands their budget, and then works to that budget.
Speaker 1 00:22:43 And I found that a really good reframing, and this is similar to being relationship proud, that's to reframe. So instead of thinking I'm someone who's no good with money and it's embarrassing to, to maybe not have enough money, I became someone who was in total control of their money because I was like, no, I can't do that. It doesn't allow my budget. And it's the same with being relationship proud. As before someone, I was like, well, I don't have control of who I am in my relationship and my identity. While now I know I have control of my relationship, I have control of my identity, I'm proud of them, and I can do things that align with it.
Speaker 2 00:23:20 I, um, I just am loving all of this. It's very bonding for me. This exercise.
Speaker 1 00:23:26 <laugh>, we might have to cut the episode short. <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:23:29 Stop.
Speaker 1 00:23:30 No,
Speaker 2 00:23:30 Really stop. Okay. Um, it's, look it, I'm everything you're saying, for me, the word that just keeps, you know, popping up in my head is just, you're being so deliberate in your life. And something we talk a lot about is trying to break the social norms that we come up against all the time, or at least question them and work out whether they're right for us. And I think relationship proud is counter norm, especially for men. Like, maybe not so much for women, but for men. I think there is a counter norm to being very, very clear as to what decisions you've made and why you're doing them. And, you know, you do get that sort of conversation around, oh, the old ball and chain and whatever else it is. Because, because there is this social pressure or this social norm around that it, it, it's about being deliberate in who you are and who you see yourself as. Isn't it?
Speaker 1 00:24:22 Anytime you don't follow a social norm, you, you, you're at risk of other people bringing you down because if they actually, they pre, it's easier to bring someone else down than actually take the time and reflect on who you are and how your actions affect life and affect everything. So, you know, I another, the thing is a lot of people really struggle with their relationships and I think it's tough for people to be proud of something they're, they're struggling with. And you know, it's almost a chicken and the egg thing. You want to identify as someone who is a good husband and father, but you aren't right now. So how do you do that? And, and, and it does take a leap of faith and you know, Kim and I read a lot of personal development books and relationship books, and one great one is, uh, called Be Your Future Self Now. And really this is about the author. I'll get it wrong. Ben Hardy. Yeah. Or yeah. Oh, boom. Um, he's saying that we are so different from who we were 10 years ago to now and we'll be so different in 10 years. Well, why don't you get a head start and if you want to be the person, it might take you 10 years to be, mate. Have a look at who that person is, what are the key characteristics that define them and start being that person today.
Speaker 2 00:25:41 Yeah, I love this one. This was, it's, it was a big mindset shifter for us, especially in business, but also in personal life. Why wouldn't you undertake the actions of the person you are trying to become? So if you wanna be a really great father or husband, if you say, you know, in, in, by the end of 12 months, I wanna be really able to look at myself and say, I'm a great husband and father that I'm relationship proud. Then you start acting today as you would expect that great father to be in 12 months. And when you start acting today, and you're not gonna get it right every time, but your intention is going to be following that and building that. When you start those actions today, you become that great father and husband even faster. But you have to take a leap of faith.
Speaker 2 00:26:22 It's like you saying it is a leap of faith. Like if we often get stuck in a shame cycle, I think, like you said, when there's a disparity or, but I'm not that person, so I'm gonna lean into the fear of trying to be that person. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, maybe make the wrong decision now 'cause I'm not that person. I'm feeling a bit of shame. You have to take that moment and say, hang on a second, what would that person do? They wouldn't lean into that fear. They would take that leap of faith. That's what a great husband, a great father would do. And so I'm gonna do that and move myself more towards that. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:26:53 A a hundred percent. And just for everyone out there listening to this is like, I, I'm, you know, surprise, surprise. I'm not perfect and I still take steps away, whether I'm mean to or not from being the person I want to be from, being relationship proud for being a strong provider, for being a good man. I still take bricks off the wall when I should be putting bricks on. Sometimes I, I knock a few more off than I should, but because I have that beacon, that identity that I can walk, go to towards, I'm less likely to do it. And, and, and it just becomes a bit of a pillar, uh, you know, a real, I guess yeah. A a beacon that I can work towards too.
Speaker 2 00:27:33 I love that. The lighthouse.
Speaker 1 00:27:35 Yeah. We're building a brick wall to a lighthouse and moving towards it. <laugh> simple. <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:27:41 Yeah, dear. Okay. All right. Um, great. I loved that chat. Thank you so much for sharing that, Roger. I've loved this concept since you started talking about it. And for me, that was just beautiful hearing you express it. I'm gonna jump in straight away with what my nugget out of today is. And it's definitely about owning your choices and being deliberate and being aligned and harmonious as a result. When we own what, what, what decisions we make because they, they stack up with who we wanna be. There's a harmony in life, there's a peace in life. And I just, I want that for people. I want that for people. I really want people to feel peace in life and feel like they're congruent or aligned with who they see themselves as. How about you Raji? What was your golden nugget today?
Speaker 1 00:28:27 Well, I guess it's about, I think most people, most men would say, you know, I want to be a good father. I want to be a good husband. And so by just simply breaking down, okay, well in this moment the action I'm taking is that gonna move me towards or further away from that person I want to be. You are amazing. You've just spent quality time on your relationship.
Speaker 2 00:28:54 Feel out you're on a roll. If you want more living, the team life, relationship, insights and conversations, head over to Kim and roger.com where you can find all the show notes as well as tons of other relationship goodies.
Speaker 1 00:29:05 And if you like today's episode, please hit subscribe or let another couple know where they can find us. It'll make them happy and it'll make us really happy.
Speaker 2 00:29:13 Until next time, keep on living the team life.
