Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:03 Children, they're one of the most magical parts of life. But reality is they also bring on one of the hardest seasons of life in your relationship, the pressures of sleep deprivation, loss of identity, mental health decline, loss of time, and an unceasing unsurety about what you are doing. And whether it is correct make for a boiling pot of challenges. For any couple, a lot of these issues are chronically under acknowledged. The silence only contributing further to the sense of isolation and disconnection. Couples often feel. So we are opening up the conversation today to de-stigmatize it by exploring some of the well reported and not so well reported struggles for parents of young children, and how as a couple you can tackle them together. Hey, we're Kim and Rod, and we're here to show couples how to get the best out of their relationship so they can start living their dream life together.
Speaker 2 00:00:53 We're a west Aussie couple who are living the life of our dreams. We don't entertain the word should we think about the future as a field of possibilities, and we'll let joy be our compass.
Speaker 1 00:01:02 We've taken the simple idea of working as a team and applied it to our marriage, and it's been a game changer, allowing us to work out what truly lights us up in life and to go after it together.
Speaker 2 00:01:11 From living in snowy Japan to starting our own house dripping business, we've achieved some big dreams and most importantly, we feel fulfilled and are having the most fun we've ever had.
Speaker 1 00:01:19 Pick conversations from inspiring couples, thoughts from relationship experts and tales from our own lives as we help you to gain the wisdom and skills you'll need to turn your relationship into a real team. These
Speaker 2 00:01:29 Are relationship conversations for real people buy real people. So sit back, get comfort from whatever tickles you pickle, and enjoy living the team life.
Speaker 1 00:01:45 Something that comes up, uh, when kids are babies, it comes up when kids are toddlers, when they start to go through all the big developmental milestones. And that is differing parenting styles. And this can really impact your relationship. Disagreements about how to raise your children, how to discipline the children, how to educate the children, how to keep the children healthy and happy. And it can be r really closely linked to family of origin stuff. So how you were raised and what you consider as normal, uh, there's no such thing as normal. There's just what, what was typical for you in your life, but we, we have this idea that something is normal or not normal, and it can be very difficult for couples if they don't take the approach in this space of understanding that they need to set their own family rules, and that's something new. They need to set their own family values and guidelines as to how they're going to raise their children and engage one another as co-parents. And I think a lot of couples perhaps haven't thought about it like that, that this is actually a wonderful opportunity to, to set your own set of family values and guidelines. And when you do that, you are both on the same page rather than having necessarily these conflicting, differing inputs. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:03:14 You, you can see how it happens, but you know, the truth is that we live, if you listen to this podcast, you, you know, live in a first world nation most likely. And the, uh, in those nations generally, the infant mortality rate has absolutely plummeted, especially in the last 20 to 30 years. And so really, I guess the way I look at it is because we're no longer worried about our kids getting, you know, the nutrition, got a lot of medical support available to them because you are in the first world country, those larger risk issues in terms of their life and their and their development, we are more likely to focus on the little things that probably actually don't matter. So, you know, something that might matter. The one where some people let their babies cr cry it out.
Speaker 1 00:04:02 Ah, the sleep training.
Speaker 2 00:04:05 Yeah, I, I'm, I I just heard, I, it's not just sleep training, it's when the kid cries not to give them attention, not to cuddle them. And actually they might not even fall asleep. It's just about them. Let them cry until they stop crying.
Speaker 1 00:04:17 Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's a, um, self soothing, they call it, it's an interesting one. And, and not, you know, we're not here to pass judgment. Everybody has to make their own decision, and that's one of the things we're talking about today. But yes, that's one that I think is contentious in relationships. Uh, and again, it is a really important area. So in terms of, you know, you are highlighting that we've shifted from, from, uh, you know, in the hierarchy of needs, I guess you're right, yes. We don't have to focus so much on keeping the child alive, but from a developmental, and it is a privilege to be able to worry about the progressive development. I guess that's the point, right? It's a privilege and it is something that we do worry about. And coming back to how the differing parenting style styles can really impact the relationship. It's, it's, I guess I would say it is important to acknowledge that we come at these things with different, uh, sometimes different values, but at least different family of origin, um, norms and, and cultural upbringings and taking those and understanding that it is about setting new family values and new agreed norms for you guys, just for that unique unit that you are now part of.
Speaker 2 00:05:39 I love that. Because what you're saying is you, you are coming together and agreeing on a path forward, and you are, you are blocking out all the noise or you are taking the lessons you, you want and you choose and you need from it. But the parenting style internally won't be conflicting, so you might choose your own path. Yes, we're gonna self soothe. Yes, we're gonna make sure that they only eat, uh, tofu and um, quan or what, or whatever it is. Quan. What is quan? It's koan or it's like a oa. It's, it's like, I dunno, it's fake. It's fake food. <laugh>, um, <laugh>, sorry, fake vegans. And, um, oh yeah, yeah. And, uh, but you know, but what the point is that you choose to do that together. You choose and you agree on this is how we're gonna raise our child. And then for the child, they see, um, they see a consistent approach to, to life to how they, they were raised. That's a good segue for us to go into unequal distribution of labor.
Speaker 1 00:06:37 Yeah, I think this is a big one that shows up with young children, obviously, because someone needs to be at home a higher percentage, even if you both end up going back to full-time work at the very beginning, at least someone has to be rearing the baby. And statistics show, we've spoken about this before, that women do a disproportionate amount of the home labor, irrespective of how much they actually work outside of the home. And I think this is a, this is a really frustrating issue for women because there's very little value placed on housework and or, or child rearing. And people say, you know, what do you do? What do you do? They ask that question. They love to ask that question, and they don't say, oh, you work as a mom. They say, oh, you're a stay at home mom. Actually, you've just described my office space, not what I do. So I think the, the distribution of labor covers the child rearing. We're talking about the child rearing and the, the household chores, both unequally distributed at the beginning at least. Definitely. And I think it's, it's a very frustrating one because it could, this one could be shifted merely by a better understanding and valuing of child rearing and household ch household chores.
Speaker 2 00:08:11 For, for blokes, this can be a hard one because we, we do feel all this pressure at work, and often we feel like when we get home we need, uh, inverted commas break. And I know when Kim and I went through this, Kim would often say to me, she goes, well, when do I get a break? Because I'm here 24 7 looking after this kid. And I think, and it's a hundred percent valid and fair comment. I think a lot of guys will sit there going again, like I said, oh, well, you know, I need to make sure I'm mentally on at work. You know, how are we gonna afford the, the new, um, bugaboo, uh, pram? How are we going to afford daycare? How are we going to afford all this? So obviously the priority is me and earning an income when that's not it at all. And we're not talking about 50 50, we're talking about supporting and helping each other out. And I think it's clear from all the research, I think most people probably found this, that it is unequal. Um, but equality doesn't need to mean 50 50. It, it really should just mean, um, doing a little bit extra and supporting each other.
Speaker 1 00:09:15 I think you're right, it really is, uh, comes down to that mentality and that approach to it, doesn't it? You know, a lot of it is, I think stems from when we work before we have children, when we have a day at home, it's a day off, essentially, right? I'm in my home environment, I get to do what I want when I want. And I think for a lot of parents who aren't the, the parent working at home, there's this misconception that the parent who isn't home with the children working is actually has, has it easier because they're in the safety and relaxation of the home space. But that home space has shifted once you have children. That home space is now a work zone and it is a relentless, as you say, a relentless work zone.
Speaker 2 00:10:04 I think a lot of people might have seen this during covid when they were having forced to work from home, um, with the kids. And often, you know, we can see this is why there could be a lot of communication breakdowns in the early years of, um, of a child because you just feel like you're not, you're not being seen. You know, when, when one of you comes home at the end of the day from work, and this goes, I just need time to decompress. I just need a break. You are not seeing the other person for all the work they've done. And then of course, you know, conversely, you could argue, well, what I have been at work, it is stressful, are they seeing me? But hey, if you've come home, you've straightaway picked up the baby, you've straight away gone and nursed and given your partner 20 minutes to go have a shower <laugh> to go to the toilet. Or you, you go, you get home straightaway and you, you fill up the dishwasher or you get home straightaway and you whip up something, something to eat, you know that, that is showing support. And I bet you your partner will say to you, I see you for doing that for me, and I see the support.
Speaker 1 00:11:11 Absolutely. And again, it's around understanding each other's perspective better and understanding what they're actually dealing with. You know, from a woman's perspective, when it's the partner, especially in those early months when you're at home with the baby and, and doing all of the child rearing and, and, and the house care and all the rest of it, when that partner gets home, you see that the travel home is a break for them.
Speaker 2 00:11:37 <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:11:38 You are like, well, hang on a second, you just got a break because your day is so unrelenting that there is no travel home by yourself. There is no moment to scroll and fiddle around on your phone,
Speaker 2 00:11:50 What you would give for 30 minutes listening to a potty on the train. <laugh>, I
Speaker 1 00:11:53 Literally could not get to the toilet when our daughter was little. I just c I just, that, that was my pet peeve every day was like, I would go to go to the toilet and she would start crying, or I needed to do something. It was just drove me up the wall was not being, people talk about not being able to shower. Be honest, that was low down on my priority list. I wasn't getting to the toilet. So it, it was so frustrating because you don't have any of those transition zones, let alone the fact that you have no adult connection or any of those sorts of things. So I think building that understanding for, you know, explaining and understanding to your partner that actually you are getting that transit. It might not feel like it's amazing cuz you're sitting on the train or walking or whatever, but to be honest, compared to what I'm doing, it is a break. So you have actually had a break
Speaker 2 00:12:42 And you, you had a list of Jo. I know what helped us, and again, it definitely wasn't 50 50 for Kim and I, Kim did most of the housework. Um, she took care of our little one, did most of the heavy lifting. Yes, I worked long hours, but you left me a small list of stuff to do that I could do before I left the house every morning that you said was something just that showed that just helped you out a bit, just showed that I had your back.
Speaker 1 00:13:10 Yeah, this was a massive thing and it, it kind of blew my mind when I told the mother's group I was in and they were all just so shocked that I was able to leave you this list and you would do it. But for me it was just communication. I was saying, if you do this for me, my day's going to go easier. And I, I am under a lot of duress at the moment with the sleep deprivation and the fact that our child was also a kidnapper because of the heart issue. So I didn't get any long periods of break during the day. I didn't get any break at all, really. Um, and, and so if you do this for me and take some of the household chores on before you go, and it was so basic, it was literally wash the bottles from the night before, which I had been up.
Speaker 2 00:13:53 So dishwasher, wash the bottles, clean the counter, that was it.
Speaker 1 00:13:57 Like, well, I just wanted to walk into a clean kitchen kitchen. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:14:00 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:14:01 And it changed my, not only did it change how I felt about the day and how I was able to get started on the day, it also softened our relationship because I felt like you heard me, you saw me and you supported me. So really, um, such a small action and such a small opening of communication around what I needed resulted in a a a really big flow on effect for us
Speaker 2 00:14:26 Helping each other out in the home. And we didn't want to get into solution mode too much. Of course with the unequal distribution of labor, it was really more about, well, we know this is a fact <laugh>, so let's talk about it. Let's see this in ways where may, maybe you can find a bit of connection in there. But of course connection leads to intimacy. And one of the big things that changes in a relationship when kids come into play is intimacy.
Speaker 1 00:14:52 Yeah. I, we've spoken about this before in the, in the body image issue and talked about the direct link between, uh, your physical changes after having a child. Uh, all of the stuff we, I just highlighted again a minute ago and how much you wanna have sex with your partner, it does impact it significantly. Libido changes for women because of fluctuating hormones, exhaustion, sensory overload. You don't wanna be touched, don't touch me. I've been touched all day. I have my boobs sucked on all day. I just want to be left alone. And it is, it is literally sensory overload. So it is a tricky time because I know that the male and female perspective on this is coming from very different experiences over the immediate period prior to where you find yourself,
Speaker 2 00:15:42 Men want sex and women don't want as much sex. <laugh>. Yes. Literally. Yeah. And, and, and guys, like when women have children, everything, the focus goes onto the children and to bond with the man, they need an additional kick of oxytocin. They need to make sure that they're feeling supported, connected and loved with their partner. And we're, we're talking about well after the birth here, because that's a whole nother kettle of fish supporting your partner in those first few weeks and months to a point where they actually to heal, to heal physically, emotionally, where they, they feel they can, they can be made love to again. Uh, I'm sure that, oh, I've got a few cringes just then, but, um, I thought it was beautiful. I feel beautiful <laugh>. And, um, but what I'm saying is that, you know, what would happen is I wouldn't work on the i'd, I wouldn't go through the emotional foreplay required to get in this a space where Kim, who would have to go above and beyond to herself at that time, feel like she was in a, in, in a space for, um, physical sexual connection. I wouldn't go above and beyond myself. And what I would do is I'd swan dive in out of, uh, my tunnel of, okay, wow. That's i's got a bit phallic in it. Sorry. So what I do is I, I would just come in no emotional foreplay and just be like, all right, time for sex or I'd, you know, snuggle up next to you in bed or I'd, you know, you're literally
Speaker 1 00:17:12 Describing what you do now.
Speaker 2 00:17:13 Okay. So, so things haven't changed much, but the little ones a bit older. But what I'm saying is because I hadn't put in that that time in terms of, you know, supporting her at home, showing her that I've got empathy, showing her that I've got her back trying to make sure I supported her, I then would feel like, I then would feel like, well, she doesn't wanna have sex for me. This is ridiculous. Um, she, she's all, everything's about the baby. So when I used to be the most important thing in Kim's world, I'm now number two. Um, and then you, you, you go down the pecking order. So I can,
Speaker 1 00:17:48 It's so interesting you say number two because where does that leave me?
Speaker 2 00:17:52 Ooh
Speaker 1 00:17:53 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay, moving on. Loss of spontaneity. This is a quick one, but it is a valid one. It's just really about fun, isn't it? Rod? Having some fun. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:18:04 You get a lot of joy from your little, your little kid, your little baby. But you need stimulation. You need novelty outside of just the new kid. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, just like we talked about that validation and challenge from your friends, you need that from your environment. You need that from each other. And so again, if you are just going through the motions constantly with your partner, if, if you are just in survival mode, it's unlikely you, you are stepping back and able to go and have fun and you might not even be able to have fun because you don't have the outer support system in place with your grandparents or you can't afford, um, babysitters or it's hard to get a babysitter or you know, you are, you just are not in a space mentally or have time to actually go out and do something for yourself. Cause that's what it is really.
Speaker 1 00:18:53 Yeah. Time's part of it for sure. And, and we've talked about this is its own issue, but it really, it connects to that loss of spontaneity. The loss of spontaneity largely comes because you don't have time or capacity for it. Uh, we just really wanted to acknowledge that without that you do lose the opportunities that you often have pre-children for connection and bonding, uh, which are often done through those spontaneous little activities and those fun things that you plan together. So it is something that impacts the relationship. And again, what we're trying to do here is, is show some validation. We're not saying you can fix everything here. We're not highlighting these things to say all of these things are un undoable if we start talking about them and start planning for fun. The reality is you're not going to have time or capacity to plan for those things. We're not saying that that's going to suddenly change or, you know, one of my pet peeves and people say make self-care a priority. Well that's lovely, but now you've added stress about making self-care a priority, <laugh> to my already stressed life. So what, what we are saying is that sometimes just validating where we're at and the season we're in and the difficulties we're having can be a really great starting point for making a mental shift around things more than necessarily a physical shift in a certain space.
Speaker 2 00:20:13 So, you know, what's sort of also been littered throughout all the things we've already talked about, um, is that societal pressure and expectations of what parenthood should look like.
Speaker 1 00:20:26 Yeah, absolutely. This is a, a huge, huge issue for young parents, parents of children in general because for some reason we have this idea, a lot of people have this idea that judging others is their God-given, right? And the reality is none of us wish to be judged. So I don't know why we spend time judging others. The truth of life is that we are all running our own race with our own very individual and unique set of circumstances. And nobody that is not in our shoes can ever possibly understand to the depths that we do what our life is like. So the societal pressures and expectations, the comments like in my day or when I was feeding, I breastfed right through to three years. And you should really just breastfeed for as long as possible and never consider anything else, are so painfully unhelpful because they do not consider your personal circumstances and they invalidate you and your reality.
Speaker 1 00:21:31 They're telling you your reality doesn't matter. You should try and fit into my world. And that is so alienating. It is, it is so impactful on your mental health. We really wanna shift away from those ideas of judgment. And something so helpful here mentally for people is to start thinking about and really just acknowledging that we are all individual with our own individual set of circumstances. We are all unique and that's really how we wanna be approaching something. What you did is none of my business and what I do with my kids in my family is none of your business whose business as it is, is mine and my partners, we set the, we set the parameters in this immediate family, now we are the team taking this on. And it's up to us how we wanna make these decisions and approach life.
Speaker 2 00:22:19 I love that babe. Every person is different, every parent is different, every relationship is different. And then, uh, anyone who's got, uh, 1, 2, 3 kids know that even each of their kids is different. Oh yeah. So why, why are we trying to fit them into this one box? Why are we trying to do that? And I can see why in terms of, you know, you jump online, you're on Instagram, you're on Facebook or your socials and you're seeing people up there and the kids are wearing little Nikes, you know, they're wearing pla shirts, they're looking badass, you know, they're doing activities. They're in Byron Bay or they're doing stuff that you couldn't dream of getting cuz you are just going, I'm barely keeping my shit together, <laugh>. How, how are they doing this? But of course, as we've talked about, we talked about on our school non holidays episode is that life isn't what people put up on their socials. Don't do it because it's what you expect society is telling you you should do because you see it on Instagram because it's what you did when you were a kid or what your parents or what your friends are doing, what the school parents are doing. Do it because it's meaningful to you. Do it because it's meaningful for your kids. Take control of how you believe your life should look like.
Speaker 1 00:23:32 Do you know there was a nurse, and I dunno if you remember her, uh, at our OBGYN's office and she did a session with us. Do you remember that? We did the baby session.
Speaker 2 00:23:41 Tell me, and I might, okay.
Speaker 1 00:23:43 Anyway, we did this baby session with her. A part of it was cpr, it was basically keep the baby alive session. And she kept answering the questions with this beautiful answer. She said, well, you won't know till you meet your child. Well you won't know that till you meet your child. And I kept thinking, give me the answers, <laugh>, get me
Speaker 2 00:24:01 The answers. Where's the script? Where is
Speaker 1 00:24:02 That? But it stuck with me. And I went home and I marinated on her and I thought, all right, this little person is going to help me to understand the answers to these things as we go. And nobody's gonna know them until she or he at that time we didn't know comes into this world and she couldn't have been more accurate. Our kid is the most unique individual. She is just such a brilliant life lesson on the fact that we are all so different and she needs what she needs because of who she is, not because society says that's normal at all, all coming along. The next issue that we, we see popping up and that, um, research tells us this is out there as a, as a, as a real stressor in, uh, relationships with young children is the financial stress. It's, it's the cost of raising the children, but it's also more than that.
Speaker 1 00:25:00 There's a lot of other financial pressures in terms of how the work environment shifts, uh, the future, saving and planning, all of these sorts of things that are going to impact you financially. And also, you know, there's a sense when you have children often that you are financially going backwards and that sense is correct because in most cases in Australian households these days, both of you will be working to some degree when the child comes along. And for a period of time it can be a long period, it can be a short period. At least one of you is gonna be taking some less work, which means some less money. But that's the agreement you make when you decide to have a child. You are giving something up and one of the things you actually give up is the ability to financially grow. It's a huge sacrifice, don't get me wrong. It's a huge sacrifice, but it's such a beautiful sacrifice. And when you think about it like that, when you understand, yes, I am going to go technically backwards if you wanna build, you know, all the numbers into the equation, I'm gonna go technically financially backwards for these years. But boy am I going forwards in the parenting department. I'm making a huge gain in that department. So we can't go forwards in every department all at once. We just don't have the resources for it.
Speaker 2 00:26:20 Yeah. If you think about a startup business, this is literally what they go through. Those first five years often won't make a profit. You know, they're going backwards because they're setting up a business structure, they're finding their market, they're making sure their product meets the customer's needs, and then they look to grow after that. And it's the same in a household. Your your new little one and you and your partner, you guys are a family startup and you can't expect to be shooting for the stars in terms of finances in year one. Especially when you've taken on maybe a new house or you had to upgrade your house to two or three bedrooms because you're having another kid. You might want to get a dog. You've just had all this outlays of prams and cots, any sort of cost in terms of medical, uh, medical, a new car with a baby seat, all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 00:27:08 So, you know, you really gotta to sit back and understand that you aren't going to be financially better off in the first couple of years after you have a baby than you were beforehand, as you said. Because one of you will generally take a fair amount of time off work, getting back to work's gonna be harder. And that's just with one kid, let alone two or three. And so as a result, by not putting yourselves under so much pressure is that thinking, oh, we're going backwards. We're going backwards, we're going backwards. No, you're a startup. And hopefully the pressure that puts on someone to go back to work early when they don't want to or to stay in a job that they're not really enjoying, but knowing that they can't change. Cause the risk too is too high. Or thinking I have to get a promotion before we have another kid, which a lot of people might think,
Speaker 1 00:27:56 I think it's about that reframe, isn't it? That you are growing, you're just not growing in the financial area. We have different areas of life that grow at different times. And when we choose to make a huge undertaking in one area, as you and I say Rod, it's a, it's a theme again of, of what we're teaching here. You have to give something up to go after something else. We just don't have infinite resources. So when we decide to go and have children or add children, you know, it might be number two or number three we're talking about here, you are going to give up something on the financial side and it could be for eight, 10 years plus, who knows? Yeah. Right? It can impact you significant, it could, if you decide to keep someone out of the workforce for, uh, some part of the week or for the whole week ongoing, then, then that's going to impact you on an ongoing basis. But you are making gains in the family department. So just remembering, it's not necessarily just looking at it in isolation. Right. Our lives have different parts to them. Yeah. And we have to look at that as a whole of,
Speaker 2 00:29:01 I think what you'll find throughout this conversation we've had, we've, yes, we've talked a lot about pain points, but a theme running through them is the fact that these can be makers or breakers of a connection in a relationship.
Speaker 1 00:29:15 I think you said something really striking to me when we were doing our prep for this show and you said, you know, for some couples they may not have a deep conversation for five or more years whilst they're rearing young children. And I, I thought really? And then I thought, you know what? I can see that. I can absolutely see how that happens because you're so busy in survival mode. You are so consumed with these tiny people and this different life and this loss of identity and this loss of time and this exhaustion that you're under, that finding space for a deep conversation, mental space, physical space is, is really, really, really hard. And so, like you say, rod underpinning all of this, what we see as a result of all these pain points is a loss of connection. And that's why the stats show that a lot of people struggle in their relationship when they have young children.
Speaker 2 00:30:20 I talked about tunnel vision, how when you're just trying to keep this kid alive, you're trying to progress your career, you're trying to just keep mentally well, you're trying to stave off sleep debt deprivation, how easy it can be to not focus on the connection between you and your partner. Cause a lot of the time it's actually because you're like, you know your role, I know my role, let's just get to it. Heads, heads down, bum bums up. And and the risk of course is that if you are not growing together, you could be growing apart. And that's a really big risk to take. You know, how do you know when we've talked about how much that kids can have an impact on your identity, how do you know whether that person is the same person they were a few years ago when they first gave birth and had kid?
Speaker 2 00:31:07 How do you know if your partner is still the, still the same person in terms of where they want to go in their life or where they want to be in their career? You know, kids change how you see the world and where you want to go. And if you haven't made the time to take stock together and have deep conversations about who you are, where you want to go, how you see the world, you could find yourselves in 4, 5, 6 years, 10 years, hey, we're completely misaligned and I don't think we've got a connection anymore.
Speaker 1 00:31:38 Yeah, it's a great lead in to some of the ideas that we've brought to the show today for ways that people can possibly start to make a shift in the, in the way their relationship is engaging and connecting in these really, really difficult years. And just holding whilst they, whilst they listen to this holding in place that we understand, we've obviously just listed a ton of challenges that people are under. We understand there's no, there's no fix for a difficult season. That's not what we're trying to give people today. What we're trying to give people is some strategies to support a healthier relationship during this period. And these are not heavy time strategies. They're, they're more about our approach and our mentality towards our relationship because that's where we do have a little bit of room when we, when we're on a good day or we do have a little bit of room to consider making a shift, right? So on that, let's jump in. We've got three, three areas where we think people could potentially find helpful towards their relationship in the, in the young child rearing years. And the first one is to treat the relationship as its own entity. This
Speaker 2 00:32:57 Is really important. Treating the relationship as own entity makes it tangible. It has its own identity, which means you can actually take care of it. You can start to nurture it, you can put it into your planning. You can start to talk about, okay, how are you going, how is the little one going? How are we going, how is the team going? How is the relationship going? It just gives you, it gives you a focus point which you might not have had before.
Speaker 1 00:33:24 I love that. And I think it's that disentangling and, and um, unraveling of enmeshing yourselves as, but I'm feeling this and you are feeling that. Let's look at the relationship. Okay, now we see that relationship is under a lot of pressure. So we, let's firstly show the relationship some compassion in this space, right? The relationship is obviously going to struggle during this hard season. So let's not have perfect expectations. Let's acknowledge that it's going to be more challenging for the relationship and then discussing how we can support the relationship. It really gives you, when you treat the relationship as its own entity, it gives you that space to be able to see what the relationship is, is dealing with, what's going on for it, what's happening to it, and how you can actually support and encourage a, a better relationship in a very difficult time. And again, expectations here are not of fixing things there, of making small shifts in, in ways that are going to be impactful in your relationship.
Speaker 2 00:34:29 There's a lot of re there are a lot of relationship experts out there who not only believe that you should treat the relationship as its own entity and give it its own identity is that you should actually put your marriage first and that's how you raise happy, uh, adjusted children. Now that might seem completely against what most people believe, but relationship experts such as John Gottman and Laura Markham and Dr. William Doty all believe that if you focus on the relationship you were modeling with your partner, you were modeling to your children important life lessons, especially in terms of what a solid and strong relationship looks like, which will hold them in good step for the rest of their lives. They're creating that anchor point, that stability at home and that foundation, putting your relationship first, you actually are putting your child first.
Speaker 1 00:35:22 I think that leads beautifully into the num, uh, point number two, which is to lean into the team, right? That's what you're talking about. We wanna be building this team space where the partner and the relationship is, the relationship comes first. The partner is a key priority in your life. And I love what you say there about the, the benefits to the children, but I almost see them as secondary, not almost. I do, because really we are just talking about here how we can benefit our own relationship. And when we say put that first, it actually comes above the children, which I think for some people is just gonna be crazy to think about. But it really is the oxygen mask metaphor that people always talk about for a family. A family's oxygen mask comes from putting the relationship first, right? That's how the family survives.
Speaker 1 00:36:14 And so when we think about that and we think about leaning into the team, how do we build this team? How do we, how do we make the couple bubble exist and put this relationship first? And one of the things that we can do, like I've said, is make the partner a priority. And to do this, I think a really obvious example is when we have extended family and outside family or outside inputs outside people, we understand that their, their opinions, their ideas, their thoughts, their approaches, their help, whatever it is, come secondary to our partners. Our partner is our number one point of trust and safety and connection. And we always put them above the outside people because I think this is one of the big problems that couples experience in these early years is all these outside influences that we can pay heed to and pay attention to. We need to make the partner the priority first. Their opinion is prioritized over anyone else's. We show that the deepest respects the greatest reverence because we wanna build that connection, build that sense of safety, build that sense of trust. And you can't do that if you're saying to that person, do you know what? I hear you, but I really value someone outside of our relationship more than you. I really value their opinion above yours. That is going to break that really important safety and trust that you have between partners. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:37:42 And if you still don't believe us, just do this little thought experiment. Go up to your partner and tell them, you are not my number one priority. It, it's, it, it's jarring to think that now one, don't do that <laugh>, it's a thought experiment. <laugh>, but, but you know, it's jarring because sometimes the actions we take are not aligned with the thought that yes, my, my my partner's the priority. But are you taking the actions that show you that? Are you putting what your mum or your father or your sister, um, puts first? Are you putting your boss or your work first above the relationship? Are you putting the kid above your partner because something's going to give at that station. And one of the benefits of the team of that, of that couple bubble is you move from an adversarial role into a teammate role.
Speaker 2 00:38:37 Oh yeah. So instead of always being against them, you do this, you do that, I do this, I do that. It's we do this, we need to look at this. So we're, we're starting to bring it together. And that's where you can start to get that connection. Cuz you're going to have disagreements, your time, stress, you're financially stressed, you are, you are tired, you know, your body's, these chemicals going through it are, are changing you, you see your partner is in strife and you are struggling yourself. But if you can, if you can know that you are on each other's team, if you've got each other's back, the arguments you are going to have are likely to be fewer and they're likely to be shorter. And your kid will see you re repairing that rift.
Speaker 1 00:39:20 It's building capacity back into the relationship when you do those things, you know, it really is about when we, when we build that, that sense of team and that sense of trust and that couple bubble and we become the we rather than the you and i, we really do actually relieve some of the friction and pressure that you experience in those early years of child rearing. So it is, it is a, it, it is a really powerful tool and approach that can make a really important shift in the relationship when you start to follow that more team mentality. And I think, and the third point we just wanna make today, which is, is going to feed into the, the whole team concept as well, is building up your practice of empathy and compassion for your partner and, and within that building the compassion and empathy for the season that you're in for the relationship and what it's going through. You know, I talked about really understanding the relationship as its own entity and understanding that it is enduring something right now when we build up our compassionate sense of empathy for both our partner and, and the relationship entity itself, it does a lot to disarm and diffuse the, you know, we've highlighted a lot of friction points today. We wanna give ourselves some more capacity back in the relationship. We wanna reduce the friction points. And that's one of the ways you can do that.
Speaker 2 00:40:46 Empathy and compassion are a great gateway into becoming a team. You know, seeing the world from your partner's point of view, putting yourselves in their shoe. And sometimes it just takes, sometimes you just need to take a breath in order to do that and it's not easy. But once you start doing that, once you start going, I wonder, I wonder what a day in, in, in the life of their shoes are.
Speaker 1 00:41:10 I think taking on tasks with a partner is a great way to build empathy in this space because you start to learn what the day is like for them. Now, obviously when your child rearing, there are certain tasks that you can't take on, but there are a lot of them. You actually can, you know, starting to take on the night duties, taking on the house chores, taking on what your partner does, and one, making the distribution more equal, which is, which is a fantastic way of showing compassion for, for, for the relationship and for the stress that the unequal distribution places on the relationship. But it also builds your understanding for what their world is like and sharing with your partner what's happening for you and what your world is like. So really fostering that openness in the relationship and stepping into the shoes, as Rod said, of the partner so that you can build that sense of trust and compassion for them. And not again, this is gonna support not being in that adversarial role and instead sitting in that teammate role.
Speaker 2 00:42:11 A hundred percent. You are amazing. You've just spent quality time on your relationship.
Speaker 1 00:42:20 Feel like you're on a roll. If you want more living, the team life, relationship, insights and conversations, head over to kim and rod.com where you can find all the show notes as well as tons of other relationship goodies.
Speaker 2 00:42:30 And if you like today's episode, please hit subscribe or let another couple know where they can find us. It'll make them happy and it'll make us really happy.
Speaker 1 00:42:38 Until next time, keep on living the team life.
