Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:03 When you think of a holiday, your mind travels to Noosa and sipping cocktails by the beach, or perhaps wine tasting in the Barossa, or maybe even walking through Saam Manka markets in Tassie. Why then for every parent, when you mention school holidays, do they tense up as they imagine kids bouncing off the walls in-laws disappointing glares and more than one fight with their partner over who is supposed to be doing what, when and where? But it doesn't have to be that way. Today we are looking into the pain points of school holidays and giving you a clear roadmap on how you can discover and deliver on your definition of holiday success.
Speaker 2 00:00:43 Hey, we're Kim and Rod and we're here to show couples how to get the best out of their relationship so they can start living their dream life together.
Speaker 1 00:00:50 We're a West Aussie couple who are living the life of our dreams. We don't entertain the word should we think about the future as a field of possibilities, and we let joy be our compass. We've
Speaker 2 00:00:59 Taken the simple idea of working as a team and applied it to our marriage and it's been a game changer, allowing us to work out what truly lights us up in life and to go after it
Speaker 1 00:01:08 Together. From living in snowy Japan to starting our own house ripping business, we've achieved some big dreams and most importantly, we feel fulfilled and are having the most fun we've ever had.
Speaker 2 00:01:16 Pick conversations from inspiring couples, thoughts from relationship experts and tales from our own lives as we help you to gain the wisdom and skills you'll need to turn your relationship into a real team.
Speaker 1 00:01:26 These are relationship conversations for real people, by real people. So sit back, get comfort from whatever tickles you pickle, and enjoy living the team life. So today we're talking about school holidays and if you've got kids, you'll probably understand why this is a topic worth talking about on a relationship podcast
Speaker 2 00:01:53 If you haven't got kids and you think this is worth talking about <laugh>. That's interesting.
Speaker 1 00:01:58 Yeah. Yeah. If you are, maybe you got nieces and nephews or maybe it just means nothing to you. You don't have kids yet. But, um, if you, if you are listening to this podcast cuz you want some hits and tips on your relationship, this might hold you in good stead for the future. And I think even without kids, um, there's some really good lessons to learn throughout the podcast because they apply to a lot of other things in life.
Speaker 2 00:02:19 Yeah, a hundred percent. I think like all, I mean, you make a great point at the, at the end there, like all these things, there is always lessons that can be transferred across to other parts of the relationship, whether you've got kids or not. But that said, I think today's gonna hit home for parents. School holidays can be such a tricky time as we know. We, we've just come out of the huge summer holidays and now it feels like, it feels like we are rolling straight on into Easter holidays. Yeah, it, this 10 week readjustment to schooling, it actually feels almost a little bit cruel because it's such a short period of time after almost the equivalent amount of time on, on holiday to, to adjust to the whole new school year, new classrooms, teachers, buddies, all the rest of it for the kids. And then whammy, they're back on school
Speaker 1 00:03:10 Holidays. Wham bam. Thank you ma'am. Definitely. Uh, I know that we, uh, had a lot of fun but also had a lot of struggles during the long break, the Christmas school holidays. And I know that generally the school holidays throughout the year, the two week periods, two to three week periods, depending on which schools you go to, uh, can be quite challenging for families. They put a strain with, uh, on the kids. They put a strain on you and each other individually, and they put a, can put a big strain on the relationship and they don't feel like holidays by the end of it sometimes. Or even the stress leading up to the holidays can cause quite a lot of, uh, pressure on a relationship.
Speaker 2 00:03:51 Yeah, that's where the title sort of came from, isn't it? Like it's school holidays or is it not holidays? Is it, is it even harder? And I think if you're not deliberate about how you're gonna approach the holidays, how you're gonna approach your relationship and the family during the holidays, that's where you can end up in that really difficult place. And, and you know, we are not saying, if you are deliberate, it's gonna be perfect. Obviously we spend a lot of time prepping for holidays and even then, even with all that, it's such a hard period of time, especially the big ones, the eight weeks that just are so challenging for our little ones.
Speaker 1 00:04:26 When you make a plan, God laughs. But, you know, I think today really, um, just to run through the show, we're gonna be talking about some of the pressure points and some of the hard parts of the school holidays. You know, we'll try to balance that out with the fact that, you know, there are a lot of great things about the school holidays as well, you know, time to connect, uh, time with your family. And then of course, um, you know, we don't wanna leave you hanging. So we've got some cool hacks and tips we can take you through at the end.
Speaker 2 00:04:53 All right, well let's kick off then with some of those pain points you're talking about, Roger. The first and foremost, I think one that families struggle with and we hear a lot about and, and for ourselves is definitely an issue in a different way, uh, perhaps to some, but it's, it's managing work and holidays. And I say it's a different issue for us because we run our own business, but in some ways that can be even more challenging trying to, trying to juggle running your own business. There's no physical, uh, escape from
Speaker 1 00:05:23 <laugh>. You don't get to clock out when you run your own own business. You don't get to clock out either. And I know there's plenty of jobs cause I've had one in the past where you don't generally get to clock out. I, I was a GM of a a small hotel group and you know, if the fire alarm goes off at 2:00 AM you've gotta be on your phone or you've gotta be driving to the, to the hotel. But definitely us running our own business when we have a home office, it can definitely represent challenges and we've had to adjust in many different ways. But as a result, knowing the holidays are coming up, it start, does start to put a bit of pressure and stress even on our business, let alone us personally.
Speaker 2 00:05:58 I think that's what it is, is for a lot of families they experience a real struggle in trying to find care for the children, trying to organize, you know, different family members to jump in at different times. And that's a very stressful period for people. Organizing is always stressful, but when it's for your kids and thinking about how they're gonna cope with these different people in life, it can be really challenging. So that's the first thing I think that comes to mind as one of the pain points of school holidays.
Speaker 1 00:06:26 And I think it can often be better or worse depending on what sort of work situation is. Like if you have a company or there's a company that you work for that uh, you know, have a great leave policy or maybe they're, they're pretty cool with working from home or going in early, coming in late, especially during school holidays, it might not be much of as much of a pressure, but if you have a work environment where that's just not an option where you know, you, they don't really seem to care or they're gonna judge you, depending on what time you come and go from the office, they might see, they might link your productivity correlated highly to what the time you're in the office. So it can be quite, quite
Speaker 2 00:07:03 Stressful. You, that's such a great point and one I had to bring up later, but I'll jump to it now because the, when we are, when we have school holidays, obviously our focus and our resources are divided because we have the additional need to look after these little people all day. And there are offices that are supportive. I think on the whole, the culture has been very, uh, lackadaisical in this area. We haven't shifted enough towards being constructive and helpful towards parents in school holidays. You know, offices have changed a lot from when we started working where there really wasn't very much consideration for people's personal lives. People talked the buzzwords when we started it in the mid two thousands were work-life balance, but that didn't actually mean anything. I think Covid has made a big impact on getting businesses to think about doing business differently.
Speaker 2 00:07:59 And especially in wa we are seeing, because we had such a labor shortage, we're seeing businesses being forced to think about the employee and the employee's perspective much more. You know, they're offering work from home maybe two out of five days a week, they're offering, uh, more holidays. So they are thinking about how to support the employee from the employee's perspective more. That is a shift, but I haven't heard a lot around people thinking about how to support employees specifically in holidays. And I honestly, when, when we were doing the research for this show, I thought this is such a cracking opportunity for businesses that really want to be best practice and wanna be world-leading in what they're doing in terms of supporting their staff and employee satisfaction. Why would you not be looking at one of the most stressful periods for a lot of parents and looking at ways you could support them to, to come through that period.
Speaker 2 00:08:50 A survey in New Zealand that carried out quite recently said that only 29% of women felt like they had a supportive office environment in respect to school holidays. That's a very, that's, that's a very low number and a very big opportunity for companies to differentiate themselves and say, you know, instead of judging someone about on whether they're in the office or not, which is causing more pressure, which is gonna lower their productivity. I mean, it's pretty basic. If you've got stress, you're not focused anywhere. If you support them and set scaffolding and structures up in place so that they feel like, you know what? We know at school holidays, we know you're gonna be divided when you're there. Do what you're doing there and you need to, you know, you switch your hours up, whatever it is. And when you are here, you know that we are not judging you, you know, we're not worrying about that. So you can be fully focused on your
Speaker 1 00:09:38 Work. Yeah, I, I know when, when I had employees, I was very much of the, of the mindset that, uh, as long as the work that you were required to do got done, and if it wasn't, you managed my expectations. I wasn't really too fussed when you, when you came in and out of the office, knowing that I myself work very differently. Um, you know, I, I was often at home or out somewhere and I'd have my phone going. I felt like if I was always on then I could be a bit more for that gave me room to be a bit more flexible. Now that's not the silver bullet, that's definitely not the answer. It doesn't work for a lot of people. And then of course when I was home you'd be like, Roger, find you're physically here, but are you mentally here because you haven't been able to disconnect from your phone or the office? And that can cause other issues, uh, especially when, um, whoever it is is home. They're supposed to be, uh, engaging with the partner or engaging with the kids and yet their, their alerts on their phones are going off and that they can't help it.
Speaker 2 00:10:34 I feel like what you said though has a little bit of a problem in it because you said, as long as they get their work done. And I think this is where the, for me, the mentality in businesses needs to shift and we need to understand that productivity is going to be lower during school holidays. We have less available hours for work. So for me it's more about thinking about the school holidays and being more realistic about what employees will achieve during that period and, you know, not setting, you know, big projects to be due during the school holidays.
Speaker 1 00:11:08 Oh, that, that was a big one for my, one of my old bosses, um, she said, you know, never have a, a big project or a due date right before Christmas. And it goes for, it goes for, um, holidays over Eastern and throughout the year. Because what happens is they, they are very stressed at the time, whether they deliver the project on time or not, they go home over the holidays and then they're part, they, they bring that stress from the office into the holidays. And I think this is a, a key point as well is that you don't just turn off at, um, 12 or three or five o'clock on the Friday before holidays. It, it takes generally a few days for you to come down and start, stop thinking about work, start thinking about family and relax. And, you know, if you've had a very stressful, uh, runway into the holidays, then that does have an impact on your family.
Speaker 1 00:11:55 It does have an impact on you and your kids as well. And then their partner, cuz you've got a bit of space and time, then maybe weeks, maybe, um, maybe more, they go, well, I, you don't seem very happy. There's a lot of stress being put on you, you know, do you really wanna work there? And so my my, um, my c coo at the time had a HR background and she just say, don't do it. Do not put deadlines right before holidays because it, the, the downward, the downstream effect on your employee retention is really poor. But a lot of businesses aren't that, um, aren't that, I mean, that
Speaker 2 00:12:27 Was right. I mean, that's how you have to motivate businesses, right? There has to be an outcome for them. And yeah, I I see in that situation you're thinking about how happy they are in their job when they've got a period of time with their family, they're gonna be thinking about what was the most recent experience at work. Yeah. So that's, that's one one way of looking at it, I guess is what's the company gonna get out of this? You are going to definitely the more flexibility, uh, there's, this has been categorically shown through covid. The more you give the staff, the more they respond to it. And I think it was a misconception for a very long time that controlling people in the way the company thought was best would produce the best outcomes. But it's been clear by the shifts that companies are making towards offering more flexible work opportunities that it is, it is helping productivity, it is in helping to retain employees, which is the most important thing. Uh, so yeah, we are just talking about really the how difficult that is for people at the moment, given that cultural shift and, and focus on holidays isn't quite there yet, but definitely an opportunity for companies that really wanna lead the way, uh, in the future.
Speaker 1 00:13:39 Um, but par parents are the only one who, um, can suffer or feel stress through the holidays either, you know, often kids are out of routine
Speaker 2 00:13:47 A hundred percent. It's such a, when we think about it, and obviously you and I think about this stuff a lot because we have a, a daughter who has additional needs, which means that routine is very, very important for her. That's part of, part of her diagnosis and part of who she is as a little person. She needs a lot of predictability in the world. And so we think about changes in routine, probably more under a microscope than most people do. And the impact those transitions as you call them, when you're changing from one thing to another, the impact the transitions will, will have on your little person. And children without a very clear, predictable, structured day, which they've just had for 10 weeks before holidays can feel quite unsafe, can feel quite boundaryless. And that can make, uh, regulating themselves really difficult through the day. So you're going to see when kids are dysregulated, you're going to see, um, more mood swings. You're going to see less capacity to deal with, uh, new things to even deal with the regular parts
Speaker 1 00:14:48 Of the day. Attention seeking behaviors, attention
Speaker 2 00:14:50 Seeking
Speaker 1 00:14:51 Behaviors, because they're like, I'm at home, I'm bored. Mom and dad are home, or one of them's home. I I want to do something, I want to play with them. I'm used to someone telling me what to do all day and working within those confines.
Speaker 2 00:15:02 Yeah. So the attention seeking's a little bit different from the, like the regulating, I think the regulating is really around, they're actually just like, it's like when we look at from the kids' perspective, they're just trying to settle their little systems. Their little systems are saying literally from a biological perspective, I feel less safe and contained right now. And so my body's a bit more jittery. I've got this jittery energy and this and this l more imbalanced emotional state. And so giving kids the predictability through the holidays is really, really important because they do really struggle with that. And on that note, it's not just the kids who struggle with the change in routine, we adults do as well. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:15:42 A hundred percent. You know, we always find this with our little one, uh, one of the diagnoses for, uh, autism is that they have quite, you know, strict and rigid routines. And, but what we've found in our lives is that other adults especially that are less, less flexible <laugh> cuz they're less willing to change their worlds for, for kids mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And we see that, I think most, most people do it where they're like, well, they're a kid. They can go along with what our routine is. So like in our first episode, uh, which is, you know, are are are you stuck in your relationship? And we talked about the impact of Covid, where we went. People go through years and years and years of going to work, um, coming home, going to work, coming home, and suddenly that's all thrown out. Um, and all these different scenarios, setting as more time at home, different duties, can't go to the shops, can't go to restaurants. And the impact that had on the relationship, well this is I guess a microcosm of that, a small, in a small way for two weeks or for two months, depending which holidays it is. You have this change of roles, change of routine for adults and we don't always deal with that very well.
Speaker 2 00:16:48 You're exactly right. The shift shifting, uh, predictability of the day impacts us just like it does. Little people, we've got usually more skills to cope with that because we've got more experience. So our brains have learned how to deal with changing routines and how to regulate ourselves better and those sorts of things. But what we do see is that we have obviously a much bigger drain on our energy levels. Yes. And so when we, when we are struggling because we've changed routines, we can feel really, really shattered. That's one of the things. So parents, adults also get more dysregulated. They are more exhausted during the holidays and really need to retain some awareness for their own wellbeing as much as possible. And I know adding that layer on top of everything else sounds like it's a lot of work, but it's actually really important. How can I maintain my own regulation and support my own wellbeing because I need to know that this is going to upset my system as well.
Speaker 1 00:17:50 Yeah. My sleeping patterns might change. Yes. When I have my coffee and my lunch may change. So my body's being impacted, my mental state's being impacted because I'm used to being in front of computer, working with a team, going through certain things and now I'm balancing little kids and their needs. Um, so you're very much outta sorts for a very short time. And you can see that that really would start to fill your stress cup and you can understand when there's two people involved in the relationship and the kids are bouncing off the walls, how you can start, I guess to go at each other. And that could really cause some problems during a time, which apparently is supposed to be a really fun, amazing time. The school holidays.
Speaker 2 00:18:29 <laugh>. Yeah, <laugh>. Um, and I didn't mean that laughter sound, so <laugh>. <laugh>, uh, okay. So another thing that we see obviously that comes up as a challenge through school holidays is an imbalance of the home duties. Often it falls to one parent to do more of the home duties, to give up more of their work time. And obviously we know when we are feeling like there's a lack of fairness in the household, it can drive resentment in a relationship. So that can be a big one for couples.
Speaker 1 00:19:00 Yeah. And I'll, I'll say it, um, look, I think especially if you've got three under five, uh, it's not always the case, but I think generally it would be the, the, uh, woman who is home. Uh, maybe they're work if they are back at, back at, uh, work five days a week, two days a week, three days a week, or not at all. And I think definitely we were talking to a girlfriend the other day and she said, oh yeah, my little one's been sick, but of course it was me that's had to stay home even though I'm only working two days a week, not my partner who has a full-time job working five days a week. It was just expected that I stayed home. Yeah. And they've got a very, they've got a very good team relationship. It's just funny how it generally will sort of, um, default to that position. And that can be quite unfair because at the same time, the husband, and again I'm generalizing, might come home and go, oh, well I thought this was supposed to be my holiday. I'll have to do the dishes and hang out the washing and clean up. Come on guys. Give us a spell.
Speaker 1 00:19:59 <laugh>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I'm getting a funny lookie
Speaker 2 00:20:01 <laugh> got a few words for that husband <laugh>. Uh, but, uh, you're right. And that, do you know that that friend of ours that you're talking about also highlighted something when she misses two days, that's her full week of work gone? A hundred percent. And that's a whole rhythm shift. So the yeah, that division of, uh, responsibility and duties around who's taking care of the home and the kids can be really impactful on, on the way we feel towards our partners, especially if we haven't laid out what our clear expectations are around those things and how, if there is an imbalance, how we support them. Again, we'll talk more about how to, to better plan for these things, uh, at the back end of the show. But moving along, another one of the things that, uh, we see popping up in the holidays and is a really like a growing one, I think as a result of social media is the FOMO gremlin and feeling like your holidays should look a certain way.
Speaker 1 00:21:03 Oh, definitely. Um, you know, I think the Easter egg hunt on, uh, Easter is the big one where you've got little Sienna and Charlie in Rottenest Island or yelling up or Nua or you know, Byron Bay and they're, you know, one's wearing a beautiful little dress, the other one's wearing overalls and looks like the little kid off the Simpsons or eats too much chocolate and what's his name, please? Mr. Simpson Hunts or something. Anyway, um, and you know, they're walking through, you know, they're prancing through this beautiful garden and mom and dad are smiling and the grandparents are sitting there with a cup of tea and it's all fairies and rainbows. And of course you're only seeing the best, right. We don't, we didn't see little, you know, little Charlie vomiting 10 minutes later cuz he is eaten too much. Uh, little Sienna crying. And because she, uh, broke her basket or, you know, the fact that, you know, the dog ate all the chocolate and has done a big shit in throughout the house. So, you know, we, we didn't see all that. We just saw this perfect picture. But that doesn't stop us looking going, oh wow. I feel like a terrible parent because I haven't done an Easter egg hunt to that degree.
Speaker 2 00:22:08 Oh. I think for us, this is such a big one personally and something that we've worked so hard on moving beyond this because we are very restricted in our lives. People probably wouldn't know if they haven't experienced additional needs or disability. We, we cannot go to parks like other people. We cannot move away from our normal routine. We cannot have people in the house willy-nilly. We can barely have people in the house at all.
Speaker 1 00:22:39 Our our daughter doesn't really understand the concept of Easter, let alone why you would go th through the garden. She spends all her time in and try find chocolate eggs that mum and dad have.
Speaker 2 00:22:49 Well, she doesn't eat just
Speaker 1 00:22:50 Hidden, which she doesn't eat because she doesn't, doesn't like food, doesn't make food. That's which if you say it like that, it's like, yeah, that's a bit random, isn't it? But there's a bunny that brings chocolate eggs. We're trying to go find it. So, you know, some kids, uh, most kids actually thro on that. But, um, you know, our little girl doesn't really, she just doesn't understand the concept. But for us, we, I guess had a view of that's what the, that's what Easter should look like mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we had to take a step back and under really redefined what a great Easter was for us.
Speaker 2 00:23:17 Yep. And that's, that's been a game changer for us at all. The big parts of life. Birthdays, Easters Christmases, all those traditional times when people have really big expectations about, you know, reliving your own childhood. I think we get very nostalgic about these things and it's a, it is a FOMO because then you see the images of everybody doing their thing and it's something that you really just wanna stay aware of and, and do the work on your own values and what's, what's actually going to be a great Easter, Christmas, whatever for you according to your, what matters to you. That's, that is all that really matters.
Speaker 1 00:23:56 So with everyone out of routine kids, adults with, you know, this total imbalance of duties in the home and this expectation of how we're gonna divide up our staff with the FOMO gremlin going in, it really can, we're expecting more work, expecting more, but you being able to actually give less because of Yeah. What you believe should be required at home or what you want to have happen at home during the holidays, you can see the impact it would have on a relationship. And I, and I, that's why at the start we said, you know, you know what we're talking about here, ev everyone knows what we're talking about when it comes to school holidays and how tough it can be.
Speaker 2 00:24:31 Well, yeah, you are, we are here talking about the relationship, we're talking about different issues in the family right now. But what we are highlighting here and what we want to, what we wanna really draw to everyone's attention is this puts pressure on the relationship. And we're going to, we're gonna address that specifically in a little bit because that's really what we're focused on with this podcast, is supporting people to build a stronger relationship, to build a team life together. But just before we jump to that, I do wanna highlight, obviously I ha I hate feeling like we've just like dug down on all the crap of something <laugh>. Let's just talk really briefly about obviously the magic of holidays because we do know there's a lot of opportunity in holidays and keeping this in mind is also really helpful for the relationship and for the team because it can help you to define what you do want to do on the holidays, how you can be more deliberate about the
Speaker 1 00:25:26 Holidays. I think even growing up as kids, we generally did enjoy the holidays and we bring that into where, where adults maybe that's some of the expectation thing we bring forward. But yeah, I, there's some great opportunity in there for, for connection. There's some great opportunity in there for that connection between mom and dad and the kids.
Speaker 2 00:25:45 I think. I think they, that you're right, it's a great opportunity for connection and that can be experienced through things like different experiences, right? You're getting outside of just the day-to-day school stuff, which is, it is curriculum based and all the rest. And, and maybe exposing the kids to something that they haven't seen before, something they haven't experienced before, which is very important for kids as they're developing and growing. You might expose them to playing with different people they haven't played with before. Your kids might not have played with kids with disability before. Maybe on the holidays you play with some kids who are disabled or additional needs or whatever it is that exposes your kids to, I mean we, we grow in life by having more experiences. It's very simple.
Speaker 1 00:26:32 Yeah. So what there's a, it is a two-sided coin. So while, you know, the kids are out of routine, sometimes being out of routine and that friction will be a, um, I guess a catalyst for growth. Yes. And as long as it's done gently and it's done with the child's safety in mind and your own mental wellbeing in mind. Um, and the same goes for a partnership. You know, if you're just in and out of the office all day or at home, um, or doing both, you know, it's, it's the rat race. You just keep on going and going, going and spinning on that wheel. You know, school holidays is a bit of a break. And again, it can be, it can be a lot of friction, but through that there might be some opportunity for growth for, for both you and your partner
Speaker 2 00:27:09 As well. Totally agree. And you're saying just set the structures up, right? Yes. To support that growth because it is also challenging. And one other thing I just really wanna touch on, cuz it's such a lovely one, we have talked a lot about kids being out of routine and adults being out of routine, but in that space, when you're out of routine for children, there is a lot of opportunity for growing independence. Yeah. Because they can learn to manage that change in routine. And, and that's a really lovely thing. So there are some amazing opportunities with school holidays. It's, it's exactly what you are saying, Raji, which is setting the structure up for the relationship setting the scaffolding up for the family to have a really successful school holidays. And by that I don't mean a Instagram successful school holidays, I mean meeting what matters to your family, delivering what matters to your family on the school holidays.
Speaker 1 00:28:03 Yeah, a hundred percent agree. So I guess now we've gone through some of the pain points of the school holidays, we've also, uh, identified that school holidays can be awesome as well, but we've gotta figure out how to get there. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:28:17 Absolutely. I think the first thing I would be doing, or we do to make our holidays as successfully as possible is to focus on the relationship as its own entity. And I've talked about this recently in another show, don't ask me to remember which
Speaker 1 00:28:34 One, so se several shows
Speaker 2 00:28:35 Se Okay, there you go.
Speaker 1 00:28:36 <laugh>, that was easier.
Speaker 2 00:28:37 Yeah. <laugh>, it's, it's really, really important when we have different stages of life to think about. It's always important to think about the relationship as a separate entity, but especially when we're adding pressure and stress to take this external concept, this idea of it being its own entity. Because when we add the stress and pressure, we can then think about, okay, how is that going to impact the relationship? What am I doing to protect the relationship? So talking about how it might be impacted with your partner, having those transparent conversations around some of the stresses and pressures you might be worried about, what you can see coming up for them, coming up for you possibly. And then talking about obviously ways you can support the entity, the relationship itself. I'm not talking about the children or anything else. Focusing just on the health of that relationship between partners and, and how you're going to manage that stage that you will be in for the holidays.
Speaker 1 00:29:35 Yeah. Because the truth is that whether it be a mom or mom, dad and dad, dad or mom and dad, the, the two parents, the two caregivers in the household and their relationship is actually the foundation, the bedrock of the whole, the whole house, the whole family. Absolutely. And you have to get that right because it doesn't matter how many, uh, Easter egg hunts activities you throw at your kids, if the foundation of that relationship, if there's a lot of friction there, if you're snarling at each other beyond, you know, what isn't a reasonable amount, if you're doing a lot of fighting, if there's an undercurrent, if you're not communicating, if you are not working as a team, then that is going to filter down to your kids and then it's gonna bounce right back out with the enjoyment you get out of the holiday because it is a harder time than when everyone's doing their business as usual at school and at work and at home.
Speaker 2 00:30:25 Yeah, absolutely. Next thing that I think to be thinking about when we're planning our holidays is when you're having those discussions around the relationship and the health of the relationship and what you can do to support that, you can start thinking about how you can be really deliberate in your holidays. And for us, being really deliberate in life and making things easier is by defining what matters to you the most. And the reason we do that next is if we go straight to planning, we are not guided by our inner selves. We might be guided by things we think we're gonna miss out on or an influx of information like there's this school camp available or there's this available, but we are not thinking, does that matter to us as a family? Is that important to be doing and we can get swept up in doing things we think we should do because we haven't checked in with our own value system. And it's really critical on our on, on holidays when we are under additional stress and pressure to make sure that where values aligned. Because in times of stress and pressure, the more aligned you are, the easier it's going to be to get through.
Speaker 1 00:31:36 Yeah. A great way to counteract that FOMO gremlin is to actually really understand at its core what you and your partner value and what you value for your, the two of you in relationship and what you value for your, for your kids to get out of the holidays. Because if you are, if you do find yourself on your phone constantly looking at other people or talking to your friends and they're going on a big holiday and you are sitting there already or going, oh gee, um, you know, I I have to do something, I have to go, you know, send them to tennis letters and or send them to a quality camp or I have to, um, take the whole, the whole two weeks off. You are, you are making decisions that might not actually benefit you and the family. You're just making assumption, but understanding what the two of you really want out of the holidays Yes. Will help you understand what you can say yes to and what you can say no to. Because you'll understand by saying yes to something, it's gonna give me a lot of value. And by saying no to something, no, I'm saying no because it's actually not, it's not aligned with what I want to get out of the holidays.
Speaker 2 00:32:37 Yes. And we've got some, some examples of things you might, you might list out together. It might be I value spending quality, we value spending quality time with the kids. That means you might not be with them every day. Yeah. But you might plan specific quality engagements or outings together, even quality time at home, maybe practicing something the kid really loves to practice or exploring some part of the garden that, you know, is their absolute favorite thing to do. Those it, it drives the planning because you know what's gonna matter to you. So, uh, things like you might value the kids experiencing new things. Okay. So that's a focus. So I wanna give the kids three new experiences. What would that like You might value the kids spending quality time with extended family. Okay. So that's my focus for the holidays. Uh, you might value something as simple as, or simple, I say simple, but something as helpful as everyone being as regulated and calm as possible. Now we've had this value before because it is very dysregulating for our child during the holidays and that governed so many of our decisions. We would always ask when we were looking at planning, but is this going to help us to be as regulated, as calm as possible in a fa as a family or is this going to make us more dysregulated?
Speaker 1 00:33:58 Yeah. Because what we found, we often did, especially around Christmas and Easter, uh, you know, they're often seen as, uh, events for the the greater family. Um, but that can be very stressful for our little one and of course very stressful for us. And so we, we switch into this world of, oh, well every year we do this, so I have to do this. Or Oh, my sister or my, you know, brother or my cousin or Auntie Jean will get really upset if I don't go, you know, at 2:00 PM in the afternoon to eat hot cross buns and you know, bring the kids even though they've had a full day with the uh, their fa friends and the rest of the family. So we were making decisions based on what we thought should be done, not what was core to us. And then a few years ago we flipped that on its head and it made a huge difference into how as to how we enjoyed our holidays for both us and our little one.
Speaker 2 00:34:49 And you know, this goes to what we were talking about recently on a show in terms of putting the relationship first. Because if you have other family members and just touching on something else, if you have other family members whose needs you are putting before the relationship, you are going to make decisions that are not going to be best for the relationship. So if you say, oh no, but mom really wants me to do that and you're ignoring
Speaker 1 00:35:12 Oh, really upset sister, sister Tabitha. Oh, right Outta names <laugh>, old Tabby, she's gonna be really upset. I'm 1940s upset
Speaker 2 00:35:23 <laugh>. Yes. And so putting the relationship first, the partnership and the agreements that you have for those values as a partnership is really, really important in preserving the health of the partnership as best as possible through this more stressful period.
Speaker 1 00:35:41 Yeah. And I think that a great example of that is, um, the fact that we, we, we haven't done Christmas with our families the last two years, so I don't know if you want to take us through that sweetie. Oh
Speaker 2 00:35:51 Look, I was a key driver in this probably come as no surprise to the family members listening <laugh>, uh, because we sat back and really thought about what exactly that what we valued as a family and what we valued as a, as a couple and, and for our relationship. And we valued for ourselves, uh, the highest level of regulation through the holidays and the calmest possible holidays. We have a lot of stress day to day as it is. And we knew that that ramped up in the holidays. So we valued keeping that as calm as possible and we valued for our child her having her her most authentic experience of the holidays, what worked best for her. So that's how we engaged all of the planning. Is that something she would really want to do? Is that authentic to the little person she is not what all the other children are doing. And what we sat when we sat back and thought, okay, looking at all the activities and particular, I'll pull out Christmas day cuz that's the easiest one does sitting around with extended family, some of whom are definitely feel that strangers to her with lots of people shouting and opening presents and all this stress and noise and drinking and eating.
Speaker 1 00:37:01 And generally everyone's sort of taking care of themselves. And I don't mean that
Speaker 2 00:37:06 That's a hundred percent
Speaker 1 00:37:07 Right. Everyone wants Christmas to be their own. So we, we'd start at my, um,
Speaker 2 00:37:10 Very limited,
Speaker 1 00:37:11 Flexible, we start with my mom and you know, on the, on the top of it, it's like, oh, we drink champagne, eat sants, um, you know, and run wrap presents and then we move to your parents' place and we, you know, have a lovely lunch and we have, you know, um, you know, we have crayfish on the Barbie and all that. So at a high level it sounds really good. But what we really found is we were actually only doing that. We weren't taking a lot of enjoy medal. It was highly stressful. It's so stressful. And what we, again, we were doing that because it's what was expected of us and what we thought we should be doing. Cuz that's what you do on Christmas. And it's like, well you know what, I've said this a few times. We're adults, we get to choose what our own definition of success is. We also get to choose what we value and we understand more than anyone else what stresses us out. And so by going being brave, because it is tough because we did get flack from our families, but we did go, well no, the next two Christmases, we are just gonna have it by ourselves. I think the first Christmas, my dad and his partner came over and they're very low key and we had a, we cooked up a storm, it was four five.
Speaker 2 00:38:10 We had Christmas morning just the three
Speaker 1 00:38:12 Of our, and we had the Christmas, just three of us. And this year
Speaker 2 00:38:13 In our own home the whole day we didn't go away, which we usually do. It's this year it was just us. And even that, even the fact that it's Christmas day adds stress because it's outside of the routine. There's little red men planted around the house and the Christmas tree is up. There's already raised anxiety. So just keeping everything else as neutral as possible has been very successful for us. What we saw, like we said, we valued our, our daughter having her most authentic experience, her best experience. And it's been so joyful because she's been able to connect so much more with Christmas, the idea of Christmas without all the noise outside
Speaker 1 00:38:55 Of her. Yeah. She understands what Christmas is as a concept now versus it's just when there's a heap of people around, everyone's stressful. Mum and dad are tearing their hair out. So yeah, it's been lovely. It was a great, it was a great example. Yeah. Good work. Good work. Us
Speaker 2 00:39:07 <laugh>. Okay, so we, that's, that's all about talking about what's most important to you and understanding that that's your guiding principle when you start doing what we're doing next, which is planning. So the next most important part of prepping yourself for a successful holidays, again remembering that successful does not mean perfect. It means successful as in an aligned holidays to what you want to get out of them most and keeping your relationship with your partner, with your children. Everything as healthy as possible is making a plan.
Speaker 1 00:39:38 Yeah. So that means that success and a good holiday is because this, we decided what we valued as in what we want to get out of the holiday. And then we made a plan and we executed that plan that is successful.
Speaker 2 00:39:51 Yes. And it doesn't even mean that the plan goes to plan. No. This was something that we've gotten really good at is we make a plan based on what we really want to get out of our holidays, for example. But we always make a backup plan.
Speaker 1 00:40:06 You need a plan B in life, babe,
Speaker 2 00:40:08 When the stuff hits the fan. You gotta have a plan that's going to support you when things don't go to plan. And that means like maybe as simple as, you know, what if that doesn't work, let's drive straight home and let's pull the paddling pool out, which the kids love to play in and let's give them, let's give them a free afternoon of paddling
Speaker 1 00:40:28 Pool play. Yeah. When the poop hits the propeller, you know exactly what you can do because you've already discussed what your values are. Yes. So when some activity falls over, a babysitter doesn't rock up. Yes. Or something's closed for the day, you go, Hey, we had a few things, uh, in the, in the our back pockets, which we knew we could turn to and they still align with the fact that we wanted to spend quality time with our little ones. But, you
Speaker 2 00:40:52 Know, not, not focusing on what's being missed. Right.
Speaker 1 00:40:54 Not focusing on what's being missed. Yeah. And again, to do that you generally have to be as deliberate with your planning as in you actually have to go through this day by day.
Speaker 2 00:41:04 Absolutely. It's about planning as far out as possible. And people are gonna hate me when I say this, but when you finish one holidays, you should be planning for the next. And the reason I say that is that holidays is actually gonna give you a lot of clues about what work Yeah. And what didn't
Speaker 1 00:41:18 Work. Lots of lessons learned,
Speaker 2 00:41:19 Lots of lessons learned. So it's really handy to get together and a great, it's a great way to bond. Roger and I will always reflect on how successful something was, what worked, what didn't work, what were the opportunities moving forward. And you start to feel like you're on a team, you're on the same page together. So you need to sit down after the holidays, you know, maybe a week later when you have decompressed a little bit. But soon after those holidays, write down the learnt lessons. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:41:44 What worked and what didn't. Yes. And of course, do this together. I think that's,
Speaker 2 00:41:48 And what are the opportunities like, oh, I recognized, you know, maybe this would've been actually something that would've been a really great value for our family and actually would've hit more on the points for what the kids need at the moment. You know? So thinking about those things together, planning, as Rod said, making sure it's a day by day plan. The more detailed you are, the freer you will be. There is a misconception that planning is constraining. Planning equals freedom planning. You cannot say that
Speaker 1 00:42:11 Is freedom. No. Uh, you know, if you can get the, the foundation of your, your weeks and your days Right. You're more, you are able to think more freely.
Speaker 2 00:42:20 Yep. And I think a big hint that we have for adults is assigning accountabilities. This is a, this is such a great one. So what are you going to be responsible for? What am I going to be responsible for? So that you guys know, okay, the, the work is going to be shared. This is what it's going to look like. It might not always look like equal sharing, whatever that is. And you can have your say around how you feel about that, where you feel like there might be some pressure as a result of that. Yeah. What you might need, because it might be unfairly distributed, but it also means that there's no miscommunication on who's looking after what. You guys have your zones of accountability and you know what you're responsible
Speaker 1 00:42:59 For. Yeah. So there's less fighting. I'm not gonna say there's no fighting. There's less fighting, there's less disagreements and friction during the school holidays cuz you've been clear up upfront about who owns what, who's accountable for what activity, who's accountable for what task. Yeah. Who's accountable for booking the restaurants, who's accountable for hiring the bikes at Roto, who's accountable for, you know, making sure the babysitters are all lined up or the grandparents are all lined up, and
Speaker 2 00:43:23 How are you taking turns for the morning park run? What does that look
Speaker 1 00:43:26 Like? Yep. And you know, a big part of this is actually taking accountability of that because while you say, oh, well, you know, it is not really fair sometimes to hit your partner over the head with a plan and go, well, we planned this because plans do change. But at the same time, well you shouldn't put them in that position because it's important you take accountability of a plan you, you've been given. And it's funny because, you know, you might be sitting there going, Kim Rod, you're talking a lot of smack like, I've just got out of the holidays, you want me to plan for the next holidays and you want me to sit down with my partner and do it, and you want us to put a day-to-day plan together? And I'm like, well, what, what are you doing at the office? What are you doing in your work? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you're, you're coming up with an outcome you want, you've got core values which will decide, you know, which are almost like the bumpers in your bowling lane of where where you can go, you know, you, you, you're sitting down and coming up with a plan. You've got accountabilities of who's gonna action, what part of that plan
Speaker 2 00:44:18 You're reviewing what's worked,
Speaker 1 00:44:18 And then you're reviewing what's worked in past projects. Put that into play to put in this is exactly what you do in, in the office and in your business. But then you're going, no, that's not gonna work at home.
Speaker 2 00:44:27 Yeah, absolutely. We see that correlation in, in everything we do pretty much that what we put into play in the business really does correlate to the home life. It's not very sexy, but it is really practical and it, and it works. We know
Speaker 1 00:44:41 It works. And do you know what is sexy when you're not stressed? When you've got a plan and it goes, it goes to plan. And when it doesn't go to plan, you've got a backup plan and you are working together because you are aligned and thi Yes. And, and you've built up a pattern of behavior where you have worked together and achieved something. Yes. So you start to actually build a connection. Oh,
Speaker 2 00:44:59 It's sexy to like your partner.
Speaker 1 00:45:01 Oh, it's sexy to not be stressed out. It's sexy to be on a team. Oh
Speaker 2 00:45:04 Yeah. Absolutely. All right. I think that pretty much wraps us up for today, rod.
Speaker 1 00:45:08 Oh, there's one more thing I wanted to talk about. Oh, sorry. And that, that is expectation. So I I'm gonna hit you with some knowledge here. So a few years ago there was a study in London done by one of the colleges over there where they actually came up with an equation. They got an algorithm where 18,000 people, they sent them messages, um, you know, a few times a day on their phones. And they actually came up with this equation for happiness in terms of events and how much you enjoyed it. And simply put, and it might not be that some that simple, um, you'll probably get it straight away sweetie, is that happiness equals reality. Take expectation. So what it's saying is that so much of what we do in life is mm-hmm. <affirmative> about expectation, what we feel we are supposed to get out of it. Mm-hmm. And so if you can go into holiday holidays,
Speaker 2 00:45:55 Is that saying just have low expectations? So the equation looks fantastic,
Speaker 1 00:45:59 <laugh>, no, de definitely not. Definitely not. Um, um, it's just like, it's like, um, you know, our New Years a few years ago where we, we, I just come back from nine months in Japan on and off. Uh, you know, we were sitting out the back of our house in, uh, in a little cabana that we'd, we'd built Ka bannings cabana we'd built and we just sat there till 2:00 AM singing karaoke, drinking Baileys in champagne. And um, I think there's some pictures on Facebook you posted unfortunately that proof in the pudding that this actually happened. But we had no expectations on the night. And I think we almost remember it as one of our best New Years.
Speaker 2 00:46:33 Oh, my
Speaker 1 00:46:34 Favorite ever. And then the next couple of New Years we've tried to replicate it Yeah. With these high expectations and failed. We just failed every time because
Speaker 2 00:46:43 This year we got smarter. We said no expectations.
Speaker 1 00:46:45 This year we got smarter had, we're trying to expectations replicate that. And, you know, it actually went a little bit better. But I think that's important to go in his don't go into school holidays thinking that it has to be amazing. It has to be the best ever. Also don't think go into it thinking, well no, I I we just have to survive. We just have to get through it. So I think if you can just manage your expectations going,
Speaker 2 00:47:08 I can
Speaker 1 00:47:09 Manage the issue and work with your partner. Yes. I think you'll have a, you'll find you might be surprised.
Speaker 2 00:47:14 I like that. I think that's really
Speaker 1 00:47:15 Great. So that's all took from us for today's episode. What, uh, is your key takeout?
Speaker 2 00:47:22 Uh, my key takeout for today is that if you work together with your partner, think about it like this. It all stems from doing the teamwork together. If you sit down and start having these conversations with your partner about the importance of talking to each other about what you value for the holidays, what you value for the relationship through the holidays, it's, it's just going to, it's going to grow your connection. It's going to grow your experience of the holidays. It's going to be beneficial to the children. I just think there's so much in just thinking about it from let's, let me just start, you know, starting new things is difficult. Let me just start by having a conversation with my partner about this.
Speaker 1 00:48:01 Yeah, that's great. My, my tea, my key take out my tea, my, my tea cat. My key tea cake out is have some cake and tea <laugh>. My, um, key takeout is actually putting the re relationship as the most important thing, uh, and having it as its own entity, having its own identity. Because again, as I said, if you have a very strong connection, relationship in communication pathway with your partner, it's gonna really help your kids during those school holidays. Yes. And make them less stress. I was about to say stress free, but hey, let's not aim for the start. Low expectations. Manage those expectations. Manage their expectations. Manage. All right. You are amazing. You've just spent quality time on your relationship.
Speaker 2 00:48:45 Feel like you're on a roll. If you want more living, the team life, relationship, insights and conversations, head over to kim and rod.com where you can find all the show notes as well as tons of other relationship
Speaker 1 00:48:55 Goodies. And if you like today's episode, please hit subscribe or let another couple know where they can find us. It'll make them happy and it'll make us really happy.
Speaker 2 00:49:04 Until next time, keep on living the team life.
