Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Ever found yourself silently tallying up who's done more? More parenting, more chores, more giving?
Or feeling a flash of resentment when your partner heads out for drinks and you're still knee deep in the chaos? You're not alone. When life gets full and stress kicks in, it's easy for couples to slip into the me versus you mentality, competing for time, energy and space. And before you know it, you're not working together anymore. You're just surviving side by side.
But there's a better when you shift into a team first mindset, everything gets lighter. You argue less, support each other more, and start making decisions that give you both more time, more peace, and more energy to actually start enjoying each other again. In today's episode, we're sharing four simple mindset shifts that move your relationship from me to we. Let's dive in.
[00:00:59] Speaker B: People were always telling us, you guys are such a team. And we began to realise this just isn't the case for most couples.
[00:01:05] Speaker A: But we knew from our own experience of turning our relationship into a team that change isn't just possible, it's inevitable. All you need is a little direction.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: So that's what we do on this show. We steer you in the right direction. We keep it simple. We show you why relationship struggles show up and how you can start changing your relationship today.
[00:01:24] Speaker A: And we bring the good stuff by turning information from leading relationship experts and evidence based research into easy to understand skills and tools that anyone can use.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: We also share insights from our own 23 years of experience together. And we chat with some incredible couples who offer their wisdom on relationships.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: If a better relationship is what you want, then get comfy. Whatever tickles your pickle. As we prepare to dive into all things team.
[00:01:47] Speaker B: We're Kim and Rog and this is the Living the Team Life podcast.
[00:01:57] Speaker A: So we had a pretty rough school holidays, right? And look, I'm sure we're not the only ones out there.
And look, you really should be looking on the bright side. Glass half full, not that they're finished.
Yeah. Yeah, babe, we love our kids.
No, that, that, you know, you do get to spend extra time with your kid or kids during the school holidays. So, you know, I think you and I went into the school holiday going. Holidays going. Yeah. Okay, let's, let's keep a positive mindset. You know, we've, you know, she's just had a whole term at school. We get to spend time with her and by the end, I think we were, you know, she was really struggling for various reasons. Then we started struggling and I Think I said to you in the last few days of the holidays when we were sort of like sniping and bickering at each other a little bit and really trying to look after ourselves, that I, I said that I said I think we'll message each other. I just said, babe, like I'm sorry because maybe I'd done something and oh, you definitely, I feel it wasn't a one way street, but. It wasn't, it wasn't. But I said we're both going into self preservation mode here.
And you thumbs up that message. So that was a validation and acknowledgement that I, I felt you thought the same. But I think again, that's like this mindset thing of like, hey, we're in self preservation mode.
That's why we're, we're acting like this towards each other. You know, why aren't we feeling as connected, why aren't we feeling as strong as usual? You know, when you, oh, stress is this, that the other, you know. And the result was we'd gone into self preservation mode and then the result was as a result we just didn't feel like we're on the same team.
[00:03:44] Speaker B: That, that was the crux of it for me. It was definitely that sense of loss of a team approach to things. You and I were both really antsy, agitated at each other and, and because we do work really hard on staying in the team approach and with the team mindset, it's very obvious when we're not there. It's. That is actually not our normal mode of operating at all. It's, it's abnormal for us. So it felt really heavy and really hard because it is just, it's just not where we're normally at. And I actually feel like it got worse after the holidays finished. Almost like when you are in a really tough patch at work or life and then you go on holidays and you get sick, it was like we got the reprieve of school going back and this is no slight on our child. She is the center of our world and we adore her and we love spending time with her. But holidays can be really challenging. They're challenging for her, which means they're challenging for us. It's a change of routine and anyone with kiddos who like routine will know that that's really hard for them.
[00:04:54] Speaker A: So they struggle, you struggle.
[00:04:56] Speaker B: When they struggle, we struggle. Yeah.
So when she went back to school, I actually felt like the release that we had was more of like a sickness.
Sort of like we just collapsed.
[00:05:13] Speaker A: Well, we both were like okay. You know, I want to get my exercise done. I've got this work to do.
You need to do drop off. You need to do this. Well, we've also got this like we had a. One of our.
[00:05:22] Speaker B: You know, what we did, Roger, is we didn't stop. And we always make an effort in that first week to actually rebuild a little bit after the holidays. And we didn't this time. We had stuff to do.
And so I think that was a really big learning lesson for us that no matter what, we have to plan for that first week to be a slower pace than what we've been running out.
[00:05:46] Speaker A: Yeah, we had to, we really had to break out of the. The me to we, didn't we?
[00:05:51] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah, we were. We. Instead we dove further into the me. But we will explain how we've gotten out of that in this coming podcast.
Do you want me to do that now?
[00:06:05] Speaker A: That was a smooth segue.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I. I'm up there with Sandra Su Sully.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: Yes, I do, Kim.
[00:06:12] Speaker B: I do not even know who Sandra Sully is these days.
[00:06:15] Speaker A: I think she was my news reader.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: We all know how you felt about Sandra Sully.
You and every 16 year old boy in WA.
Anyway, let's talk about the problem that we're describing today. So I'll start with a few scenarios and see if any of these pop out at people as something that feels familiar.
Firstly, you get frustrated when your partner books something in without checking the family calendar.
Second scenario, you feel resentment bubbling when they head to work, drinks, or get a sleep in and you're wrangling the kids solo.
Third scenario, you end up fighting about who deserves a break because honestly, you both do. And fourth scenario, even small things start to sting. How they fold the washing, whether they complimented dinner or the fact that they've taken five minutes for themselves.
If any of this sounds familiar, this is what we call adversarial energy. It means you've transported yourself into the adversarial space rather than the team space. And it often shows up in the everyday stuff.
[00:07:20] Speaker A: I love that, sweetie. That term, adversarial energy, I think we often feel it and I think you and I, you and I have, have felt it over the school holidays. And I think we're just on the back end of that. And I think it was a great idea to do this podcast. But what is really going on here?
You know, why does it feel all of a sudden that you should be a team?
You're a husband and wife, or, you know, wife, wife, husband, husband. You're Partners.
But without realizing it, you stopped operating like a team. Your adversaries instead of we. It's me versus you. I think actually how it shows up really is you start hoarding all your resources and your limited resources. You're at capacity.
And this again, usually doesn't happen with a bang. It's not like you've had just one big fight or you're yelling or you've got a breakup, you know, but there's a, there's a definite shift. It's a mindset shift that slowly happens that, that me versus you and you know, what you really want is us versus the problem, but it just seems impossible to get there. So this me versus you behavior, how it shows up is that you start to keep score.
Who did what, who took what time out. So you start competing for space and time instead of actually protecting it for each other. You ring where you ring fence time, you ring fence energy, you ring fence capacity for yourself instead of ring fencing it for the team.
You start to feel like your partner's priorities always seem to take over from your own priorities. You know, there's a bit of jealousy in there, there's a bit of resentment, and you start reacting defensively, which I know is a big one for me, rather than working together. And before you know, what happens is every little thing, every little moment, as you said, the everyday stuff just starts to get a little harder.
[00:09:12] Speaker B: So let's dig into what causes the shift, because it's not that you've stopped loving each other. It's. It's really more a case of, as we've said, this sort of slow, progressive movement towards feeling disconnected. And what causes that is that life gets in the way and you haven't been able to focus on things in the right way to keep yourselves connected. That's what we're going to unpack later, is how you can stay connected through this.
But let's get into this a little bit further.
When you're tired and you're at capacity, you actually go into what's called a self preservation mode. And we've talked about self preservation before on the podcast. It's about protecting yourself in every regard. And it's at a biological level. You know, you start protecting yourself from your partner instead of protecting the relationship with your partner. You, you have this sense of, I have nothing left to give. If I put someone else first, I'll have even less.
And without realizing it, you stop tending to the thing that actually keeps you both going, your relationship.
Leading clinical psychologist Stan Tatkin unpacks the biological reasons for this behavior further. And he describes how when we're under stress, we do become primitive. That's that self preservation. We forget we're actually part of a team because we're so focused on our own survival and we go into this, this self preservation mode. It's really difficult in a relationship to be both in self preservation mode and connection at the same time. In fact, it's pretty much impossible because when you're in self preservation mode, your brain is focused on protecting you from all threats. This means it doesn't differentiate between a tiger in the jungle and a sharp comment from your partner. It just asks, am I safe? And if it doesn't feel safe, then it feels like you're being threatened. This constant focus on safety and this sense of threat that even creeps into your relationship, it makes connection in the relationship really hard. And that's exactly what we're describing here today. When you both get into a situation where you're under so much pressure, your resources are so scarce at the time, you don't focus in on the way, you focus in on the me. You come back to, how am I going to survive this? And you start perceiving everything your partner does and says as a potential threat. Because you're perceiving everything as a potential threat. You have a heightened stress state. And how could you connect through that? How is that possible?
[00:11:46] Speaker A: Yeah, when you're, when you're connecting, you're reaching out, you're letting a bit of yourself go. And if you're trying to, like, feel as safe as possible, it's very hard to do that. Right?
[00:11:57] Speaker B: Yeah. And you do still show up, Rog. It's not as if life stops. You still show up as parents, as professionals, as co managers of the house. But the relationship itself, the emotional connection, the heart of your partnership and your team, that is getting eroded and it starts running on, on bare minimum, on fumes. Really?
[00:12:20] Speaker A: Yeah. I think you're 100 right there, sweetie.
And you know, there's a real danger in that because when a relationship gets neglected.
Yeah, and there's a real danger in that because when the relationship gets neglected, your partner starts to feel like the obstacle as opposed to the solution, like the one is draining more from you than anyone else. So every decision, every moment, every little thing gets turned into a battleground and becomes win or lose.
Which means, like if you, if you win, that means I lose that.
[00:12:54] Speaker B: Well, that's that. That biological state you're in, those that, that state of I have to protect myself.
So the person you're spending the most time with, the person you have the most engagement with is going to be the most likely to be causing your you distress because you perceiving so many things through that, that lens of this could be a potential threat. Even things as subtle as a request for you to do something or request for you not to do something can be a potential threat because that's the mindset you're in. So your partner does start to feel like the obstacle or the difficulty in life.
[00:13:29] Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. The you ask, oh, could you do this? Don't you. I always do everything.
Or can you not do that? Why are you having a go at me? It's like, whoa, whoa. This is something that if you're in a good space that, that you just go back and forth like you would even joke site. You and I joke back and forth, witty banter, that sort of stuff. But when we're in a stress zone, a self preservation mode, those jokes just don't land.
[00:13:56] Speaker B: And my joke, because you hear the question differently. So this mindset we're talking about, if you ask me to do something and I'm in a great state, I just hear you need a hand with something. Right. If I'm in a stress state, I hear I need some of your resources.
And I'm like, I don't have any more resources to give you. And it's agitating me not only that you're asking for them, but that you don't say, I don't have any.
[00:14:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:20] Speaker B: So I, because I feel threatened by that, that you're going to take some of my resources. That's how I respond to the threat. Agitated, angry, annoyed that you don't see it. It's a layer.
[00:14:31] Speaker A: Very good. Like a tiger tiger. And you know, me versus you becomes the norm. You really start to distance yourself from each other or again like self preservation. Because you know, you're, you're, you're, you're not only worried about your own safety, but you're worried about. The effect is if you lash out because you sort of see your behavior from the third person almost. And so you stop checking in with each other, you stop assuming the best from one another and you stop bringing your best because like what's the point? You know, you're just going to get the same result. So emotional, emotional safety erodes as a result.
And that means that you no longer feel like you've got each other's back.
Communication becomes hard and even harder because it's always reactive, it's always Defensive instead of collaborative, you know, and you, and if this happens over a long period of time, you stop sharing each other's like cool moments, the dreams, because you're too busy defending your own needs and so you're not staying up to date on theirs. And what will happen is in the end there'll be a big blow up because of the, because of the disconnection or at least one of you will shut down.
And so this, we see this, this slow unraveling of teamwork start from this self protection, but then I guess snowball into something greater, which is exactly.
[00:15:47] Speaker B: Snowball is a really important word here. Sorry to cut you off. Because what actually happens is when you're in this state and you do start seeing things as a threat, you start perceiving normal conversation more as a threat because you are looking for threats. That's how we're biologically wired to protect ourselves. When we go into self preservation mode, it, you, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy because you interpret everything as a threat. So you're like, oh, that person is threatening me. That person is taking things away from me. So, and, and so you're on high alert. You look out for it and therefore you see it and therefore it's true. And therefore you need to look out for self fulfilling. It just goes, it goes around and around. You're like, this person is stealing my resources, therefore I have to be more alert. And you just heighten yourself further and further into this really heightened state of I know this truth to be true. My partner is taking away my resources and I need to protect myself. I'm going to double down on that state.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's really hard to get out of that state. So you know, there's, there's a heap of ways to calm your nervous system, but once your nervous system has come, you really have to start working on the mindset and the mindset shift and from getting from me versus you to us versus the problem to that team, that collaborative state of mind where you stop feeling you're alone and start feeling like you're in this together with your partner.
[00:17:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I like what you said there. There are many ways to calm the nervous system and a circuit breaker is a great starter, but it's not actually what we're talking about today. We're talking about the mindset shift that can come, you know, after you've had that initial circuit breaker. There's plenty of stuff we've done on nervous system work and finding that calm space before.
What we're talking about is actually the mindset, you want to shift this behavior long term, it's not. It's not the circuit breaker stuff. It's the mindset to make a change so that you can live far more in the team space or the we space than the me space.
So let's talk a little bit why the team approach works. And if we think of any great sports team or business partnership, success comes when everybody commits to. To the group or entity, as we like to refer to it above the individual.
If we, if we're thinking that this problem was caused because I have a sense of scarce resources, right? I'm running out of time, energy, compassion, I'm running out of all the good stuff I need as a person to function at a high level.
If we flip that on its head and said, I'm going to pull my resources with my partner, I'm gonna put my time in a bucket with theirs. I'm gonna put my empathy in a bucket with theirs, my compassion, my love, my everything in this bucket together.
All of a sudden we've got extra resources because we're a team. We've got both sets of resources available, and that bucket's looking bigger. It's bigger than our individual bucket, and we get to share them. Is it still 50? 50?
Yes. But that's not the point. When you put them both in the bucket together, some days you can draw more out of the bucket. Some days they'll draw more out of the bucket. Sometimes that'll change moment to moment. And that's the beauty of the entity. The team leads in to what it needs when it needs it. If one individual needs a little bit more, you pull more from that big joint bucket. If the other needs it, you pull more. And you. And you become generous with what you have because you want to fill into the bucket. You want that bucket to grow and be a space you can both draw from. In that team mentality, you. You have each other's backs. You, you put everything into that entity that, that group mindset. You know, a team plans together, they problem solve together, they win, they lose together, they don't always agree, but they stay aligned on what they're fighting for. And when you treat your relationship like a team, with these shared resources, shared values, clear boundaries, a team first mindset, you create this beautiful sense of safety and stability and strength because you're no longer fighting for your own resources. You're actually seeking to protect the team's resources. How can I best look after the team? What will that look like? What will the entity look like? If I take care of it, it's, it's an incredible space where you grow from that space. And that's, that's on the light side of all this. When you get to the, to the implementing the mindset and it's working and you're functioning and looking after that team or that entity together.
[00:20:19] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, people want to be in a high performing team when they're at work. They want to be in a winning team when they're on the footy field or in the sports field at home. You want to be in a high performing winning team. You want to be in a loving team. You want to be in a great team.
And so you've got to put in the work and you've got to think of it as a team, not just me. Not just you.
[00:20:43] Speaker B: Yeah. And, and think about the benefit of pooling your resources.
[00:20:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:20:49] Speaker B: This is where you both get to share and grow that pool together. You're starting from a higher base because you've got more in there together. That's, that's the simple. I like that because it's the maths of, of, of it all. Do you know what I mean?
[00:21:02] Speaker A: Like, yeah, well, if you, if you, one of you cops a loss, you know, there's two of you there to absorb it. If one of you wins, there's two of you there to celebrate it.
[00:21:12] Speaker B: Exactly. That's exactly it. All right, we have a quote from Stan Tatkin. Roger, I'll read it to you for you to interpret. So, and it just flows off what I was just talking about, really about the entity there. So Stan Tatkin, who is a leading relationship psychologist, says that the relationship is a living system. It needs food, attention, rest, and protection from the elements.
[00:21:37] Speaker A: Yeah. So really what he's saying here is he's, I guess, echoing the point we're making about the entity and we'll talk about this in our mindset shift shortly.
But really what he's saying is that you, your relationship is an actual thing and it needs to be treated like an actual, like physical thing and it needs to be nurtured as a result, otherwise it will wither and die. And of course, we don't want to just be in the wither and die or the survive stage. We want to be in the thrive stage of our relationship. We want a big, strong, healthy, growing relationship. And so he's saying it's like, you know, if you have a puppy dog or a kid, you've got to prioritize it. You've got to give it. All the attention and love it needs for it to grow up and be successful and be happy in this world.
And it's the same with the. The us, the relationship, because we always do. Okay, I'm gonna put the kid first, put work first, then I'm gonna put my partner first and then me first, like, you know, maybe in that order.
But what about the relationship? What are you doing to prioritis? Relationship? Prioritize the relationship. And if we don't think about the relationship as an actual thing, as its own entity, how can we prioritize it? Because then it's just an ethereal. It doesn't exist. Right. So how can we prioritize something that doesn't exist?
[00:23:03] Speaker B: I love this because I think on the face of it, lots of people will find this a wacky idea. The idea that it's its own living, breathing entity is just a little bit like we talk about.
We talk often about discussing things that are within people's comfort zone and like pushing them to the edge, but not too far. I reckon this will push some people over the edge when they hear the relationship is an entity. It's a bit of a wacky term.
What do you mean? I'm going to nurture this living, breathing thing. That's just. It's just my relationship. It just is.
But if we think about any other group space, any sports team, business, whatever, their main focus is the entity we are. Relationships is the only group I can think of where we don't talk about the group's well being.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:52] Speaker B: In a business, you never. Sorry. In a business you never talk about what's this individual doing to advance themselves above the needs of the entity. It always is the entity first. You're all there for that core business objective. Just like in a sports team, you are all there for the core objective of the team to advance and progress.
But for whatever reason in relationships, we have not come to this realization that it is also a group that is there for the group to grow, advance, progress as a. As a unit, as an entity.
[00:24:28] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that's what we often say on this podcast is if you want to perform or win in business, in sport, you put the team first. And so if you want to do that in a relationship, you put the relationship first. And again, you. You can't put something first unless you believe it actually exists on its own as a thing.
[00:24:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Which I think is hopefully the. The concept that we're helping to break down for people to understand and get their head around today is exactly that. So let's talk about how to go from adversaries to teammates. As we've said, this is a mindset reset, one that will improve every element of your relationship. Your communication, your problem solving, and even your stress levels. Because it's not just about two people trying to get their own me needs met. It's about building something together. This living, breathing relationship entity that we're talking about and the team. The entity then works to meet both your needs.
Just like the business or the sports team, as we've said, you have the shared goals, the boundaries from outside interference, regular maintenance and care, a strong identity, and most of all, you look after the team first. You take care of that unit so that you can maximize its output and outcomes. When we make this mental shift to the. To the entity, to the team, everything starts to move. So let's look at four ways you can start to move into this team entity mindset today and away from the adversarial you versus me mindset. Firstly, see your relationship as its own entity. As Rog just said, that's at the core of all this. You first have to start to believe that your relationship is its own thing. And I hope that my analogy to the fact that there's no other group out there sporting teams officers that. That don't talk about their own entity, that don't talk about the group as a group, helps you to understand that it's weird that we don't talk about it this way, not vice versa. So start treating it as a third thing. It's not you versus me when we have an issue. It's us versus the problem. It's the entity versus the problem. You guys own this together. Your relationship is having an issue. How can we nurture the relationship? What does the relationship need right now? Is this decision helping us as a unit?
Are we showing up for the relationship, giving it the attention it needs, the love it needs? This is so beautiful because.
And Roger, you can talk about this in a sec. And in fact, I just segue right on into it. It depersonalizes everything as well.
[00:27:03] Speaker A: Yeah, and I think. I think that's the whole point of this. We're trying to get you and your partner out of the me versus you mindset and into the us versus the problem. The team first mindse.
So, yeah, number two of our mindset shifts is stop personalizing every issue.
Don't make the problems about who's right, who's wrong, and start talking about issues that you need to resolve from the team's perspective. The problem is when you Personalize everything. Your partner becomes the enemy because it's instead of, instead of me and you versus the world, it's me versus you. So when you shift away, the language has to change and it then becomes easier to find the solutions because all of a sudden, instead of adversaries, you're a team. So I'll give you a little example here.
You might hear or say something like, you always take time for yourself. When do I get a break?
Now, this is must be how you're feeling because it's like, again, you're in that self preservation mode. But what you want to do is turn that on its head and swap it and look at it from the relationship point of view.
So, for example, you might stay and say, instead, our relationship is feeling stretched. How can we make sure we both get time to recharge?
[00:28:22] Speaker B: I love that.
[00:28:22] Speaker A: That's a lot softer. It's team approach and you're collaborating, figuring out together how to get through the issue.
[00:28:31] Speaker B: Which brings us to point number three. Shift from competing to collaborating.
Exactly what Roger said. You want to be looking for moments to collaborate on the solution, not find an individual solution. Because that's really when you stay in that me mindset. When you're in competition mode, someone always loses and resentment builds. This is that snowball we talked about at the beginning. There's no way for a me mindset to work well. It can only ever end in more frustration, more tension, more sense of loss in the relationship, and disconnection.
So, for example, if your partner wanted to have a long lunch with friends, but you were looking for a break too, if you take this mindset, shift this, this third point we're making, and shift from, oh, this is so unfair. We're competing for time. How come they haven't thought of me to, okay, let's collaborate on this. They want to go out, I want to go out.
How can we both get what we want here and nurture the relationship as a result? Because we're taking care of each other.
Organize a babysitter, reschedule so that one of you has downtime at a different time. Make a plan that honors both of your needs. That's the relationship entity at work. And it's very simple. When you have that problem, pop up, just shift from competing to collaborating. How can I take care of us versus how can I take care of me?
[00:29:55] Speaker A: That's 100, right, sweetie? I love that. And so mindset one was seeing the relationship as an entity, its own living, breathing thing. Mindset two, depersonalizing all the issues Coming at it from us instead of me versus you. Then we move from the competing to the collaborating.
And then finally our mindset is about putting the relationship first.
And you can do this without losing yourself. So when someone says, well, when we say put your relationship first, it doesn't mean sacrificing your own identity. It means actually using the strength of your relationship to support each other to each other's goals. In fact, couples who adopt a team first approach mindset report more emotional safety. And I'm actually more likely to support each other's goals because there's trust and alignment, just like Kim said, with the pooling of resources and the sports teams in the business.
So a big one would be is Kim and I are doing our half ironman training if one of us decided to do it.
And the fact that we're both doing it together, I guess is leveling up because we're. It's easier to be on the same team. But if one of us wanted to do it and we wanted the other person's support, we'd have to bring that to the table and figure out a way otherwise that those hours and hours of training is going to build resentment with the other partner. If you just go solo and realize that I'm going to put myself first because this is something I really want to achieve as opposed to the team coming together and going, how can we help Roger or Kim to achieve this dream and goal? Because that's how you're going to do it.
[00:31:35] Speaker B: I always think of the interview we did with Nikki and Pat when we talk about putting the relationship first because they talked about generosity. And I love that way of thinking about it. Be generous towards your relationship.
They said, you know, one of the things they think that makes their relationship work so well is a sense of generosity, a givingness. And what they were describing was, how can we work on this as a team, to support us as a unit? What would be a great outcome for both of us? How can we be generous towards us in the relationship? And that's where the, the resources then grow rather than feeling like they're shrinking and reducing all the time.
[00:32:15] Speaker A: Yeah, it's that instead of that adversarial energy, it's that reciprocal energy.
[00:32:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:21] Speaker A: And you know, any of you can do these mindset shifts.
They do link together really well, but you can just grab one and use it and, you know, sit down and talk about this with your partner. Because that's what teams do. They collaborate and they move forward together.
You're amazing. You've just spent quality time on your relationship.
[00:32:44] Speaker B: Feel like you're on a roll? If you want more Living the Team Life relationship insights and conversations, head over to kimandroj.com where you can find all the show notes as well as tons of other relationship goodies.
[00:32:55] Speaker A: And if you liked today's episode, please hit subscribe or let another couple know where they can find us. It'll make them happy, and it'll make us really happy.
[00:33:03] Speaker B: Until next time, keep on living the team life.
