Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Do you talk to your friends about your partner in relationship? And how exactly do you handle those conversations? Like many of us, you've likely found yourself in these discussions, but the real question is, are you finding the right balance between sharing too much and saying too little? Today we're diving into how to be open yet respectful, making sure our honesty doesn't undermine our bond with our partners. Is it possible to vent without casting shadows? And shouldn't we be celebrating the highs just as much as we dissect the lows? After all, you and your partner are a team and the way you talk about your relationship with others can truly shape its strength.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: Hey, we're Kim and Rog and we're here to show couples how to get the best out of their relationship so they can start living their dream life together.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: We're a West Aussie couple who are living the life of our dreams. We don't entertain the word should, we think about the future as a field of possibilities and we let joy be our compass.
[00:00:58] Speaker B: We've taken the simple idea of working as a team and applied it to our marriage and it's been a game changer, allowing us to work out what truly lights us up in life and to go after it together.
[00:01:07] Speaker A: From living in snowy Japan to starting our own house flipping business, we've achieved some big dreams and most importantly, we feel fulfilled and are having the most fun we've ever had.
[00:01:15] Speaker B: Peer conversations from inspiring couples, thoughts from relationship experts and tales from our own lives as we help you to gain the wisdom and skills you'll need to turn your relationship into a real team.
[00:01:25] Speaker A: These are relationship conversations for real people, by real people. So sit back, get comfort in whatever tickles you pickle and enjoy living the team life.
One of the key pillars we have here on living the team life is we want to normalise conversations about relationships, normalize conversations about relationships between partners, but also normalize conversations about relationships in society. And that includes how you talk to your friends about your relationship. So that's what we're going to dive into today. Because while, yes, we want to make sure there's more conversations about relationships. Just like recently, there's been a huge movement for mental health to be talked about in daily conversation, so it's not so taboo and as a result, we'll see better mental health outcomes and less depression. Well, it's the same with talking about relationships. We want people to have stronger relationships and that to be pushed down intergenerationally. And we believe that the more people talk about relationships, the more they'll de taboo it, destigmatize it, and normalize it. Having said that, relationships are hard.
We don't always talk glowingly about relationships. In fact, we're more likely to complain about our relationships. We're more likely to look on the more negative side of our relationships or look to vent or look to an outlet. But is that okay? That's what we're diving into today.
[00:02:59] Speaker B: It's funny, you know, when we were talking about this, I have this really vivid memory. When we were thinking about this podcast and planning it, this really vivid memory came up in my mind from a girlfriend who said to me one day, you never talk badly about Rog. And I was so proud in that moment to hear that, because I do talk to this friend about you and our relationship. So it wasn't you don't talk about Rog, it was, you never talk badly about him. And I knew, hand on my heart, in the first decade of our relationship, there's not a single girlfriend of mine who could have said that. I was very much in the generalized, you know, make conversation out of the things that are going wrong at home and what's difficult, and blah, blah, blah.
And I have worked really hard to shift the way I talk with my friends about our relationship. Not from a calculating perspective, from a perspective of. Of being part of a team, wanting our relationship to thrive, wanting to be productive in those conversations, not just vent and badmouth. And I think it makes such a difference to the way you feel about your relationship when you actually go about it like this. All of these little things add up. There's no one silver bullet to having a great relationship. This is just one of the many elements that we feel can really support your relationship, too. To thrive.
[00:04:27] Speaker A: Yeah. So we want you to talk to your friends about your relationship. But of course, we understand that if you're in a team environment, and that's what Kim and I really drive home here, is that you want to be in a team environment generally. You don't want to be talking negatively outside the team, do you?
[00:04:46] Speaker B: No, that's exactly right. So let's think about that for a second.
Coming from a team perspective, how does a high performing team, and that's really what you want your relationship to be? And we've gone through why it's so important many times on the podcast to think about your relationship as a team. And whilst it might sound clinical, it's super beneficial to want to be a high performing team because you want the most out of your life. In a business, that means building growing, making more money, getting more market share, whatever. In a relationship, that means being more content, having more in life, doing the things you want to together, being clear and deliberate in the direction you go. So because we want that high performing team, for those reasons, we need to think about how high performing teams talk about themselves, what does that look like? And let's have a little think about how that can translate across to a relationship that wants to be a team. So firstly, great teams advocate strongly for each other. That means the teammates advocate for each other. They express what their teammates are doing well. They focus on their teammates strengths, they advocate for their rights, their positions. They care about each other. They want each other to succeed. They're on each other's side, they've got each other's back. They've got each other's back. They don't tolerate anyone bad mouthing a member of the team. And I think this is a really important thing because the other part of when we start talking to our friends about our partner is our friends can chime in and it's not open slather on your relationship. That is not the case in a highly successful team. You will never see a teammate letting someone from outside the team let someone from outside the team bad mouth another teammate. This isn't to say you can't have productive conversations about issues or whatever, and we'll get into that, but they won't bad mouth the person.
Another thing that highly successful teams do is if they disagree with the direction of the team or a team member, they raise their issues openly and work through the conflict within the team. They don't just go outside of the team. So there is work within the team, there's an openness about it. So what we're saying here, from the teammate perspective is that it's really productive for a team to be thinking consciously about how they back their teammate and how they talk about their teammate outside of the relationship. What is the way that they're. It's not about presenting your relationship. And this I want to be clear on, so people don't say, oh, that's just about hiding your issues. It's not at all. It's about building that foundation in the relationship of respect for your teammate, of respect for your team, and knowing that you guys are each other's number one supporters. And you need to practise that outside of the relationship as well, for it to flow on inside the relationship. That's the way that you want to proceed forward in terms of engaging outside of the relationship around issues that are occurring inside of the relationship.
[00:07:55] Speaker A: Yeah, and we're not saying don't talk to your friends about the relationship. We're just saying there's a way to do it because there are benefits to talking to your friends about the relationship. That's what we're trying to say. We can't, on one hand, say, hey, go have more relationship conversations, and then on the other hand say, don't talk about your relationship negatively. I think, really, we want to add a bit of context and substance to this. So a 2016 study actually went in depth to understand why people talk about their relationships to their friends. And they said there was about four main reasons. One, for emotional support. We reach out to our friends when we need support to build our self esteem. And it's not just wanting to vent or complain. Friends can tell us not to worry if we're feeling worried, they can tell us it's okay, and they can make us laugh, which can really help alleviate any stress we're having in our relationship. It boosts our mood and reminds us that we are good people when sometimes we might not feel, feel that way because of issues we're having in our relationship.
Our friends can help us manage the uncertainty that comes from being in a relationship. Friends are consulted to help us navigate uncertainties around our lives, and that includes our relationships. They can give us advice. They can say, hey, maybe you should see this from your partner's perspective. Or, oh, you might have been a little bit harsh there. Or do you know what? I think you were right. Friends can also give us clarity because they can help us work through solutions, work through problems. They can see things from a different point of view when, you know, we might not be able to see the relationship forest from the relationship trees. And this can be really, this can be really important when we feel like we're in a rupture in our relationship and we're not quite sure what's happened or how we're going to go about repairing. And yes, of course, we talk to our friends about relationships for fun because we do like to gossip.
Complaining and talking about your partner can be fun as long as it's done in a lighthearted way. For some people, divulging relationship events to friends and then hearing their friends stories themselves is a great way to entertain and I guess build a bond between two people.
[00:10:13] Speaker B: I think they're really important points to understand why we do actually seek to talk about our relationships outside of the bubble of the relationship, because there are really serious benefits to talking to others. And there are four great benefits of talking to others about the relationship. And obviously, that last point you made about fun is not about being nasty. And that's where it comes down to, really how you talk about the relationship, how you have fun in a conversation with your partner. And let's get on to that. Let's talk about what are some of the productive ways to talk to friends and stay a good teammate. So, first of all, don't make it personal. Don't assassinate your partner's character. Don't talk about them always doing something or always being the kind of person that does this. Focus on the issue at hand. If there's an issue and something has occurred, focus on that issue, not the person behind it, because issues come up all the time. That's just about resolving something. Assassinating someone's character is breaking away from the team. It's saying, I don't have your back. Second thing to think about, be solution focused. Clear that you're wanting to move forward in a positive way. Or if you really need to vent to a friend, which happens to me, happens to everyone, I'm sure Roger vents to his mates. Be clear you're venting a frustration at a situation, not just paying out your partner, because we don't want to be doing that. So it's okay to be really frustrated by a situation. It's okay to have big emotions about something that's occurred. Be clear in your mind and in the way you describe it. I'm just frustrated about this particular situation.
[00:11:55] Speaker A: Yeah. So an example might be, I'm really frustrated about the situation at home, around mental load and all the work I'm having to do. And I'm worried if Roger doesn't see that versus Roger's so lazy, he just never sees me, he doesn't want to be involved, and he just takes everything I do for granted.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: I think a very relatable one.
[00:12:17] Speaker A: Whoa, not fast.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: No, no.
[00:12:20] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:12:21] Speaker B: I meant in general. Okay, next watch point for keeping the conversation with friends productive and supportive, rather than stepping outside of the team. So use the opportunity to get a different perspective. And this is one I've really embraced as I've gotten older. And I have a couple of really incredible girlfriends who will challenge me honestly with different perspectives. So be open to reconsidering your own take on things. Don't just seek reassurance for the position you've taken or the experience you've had. If you want to talk to a friend, ask them, am I missing something? Is there something you see here? And be open to what they say. We all want to learn and grow, and we certainly don't have to get it right all the time. Even if your friend said, I feel like maybe your reaction was a bit disproportionate to the situation, did you have something else going on? That's a caring friend. That's someone getting you to have a think about. Well, maybe there's some other things that were impacting you at that moment, and that's okay. Let's reflect on that, and then you can have a more productive conversation out of it. So use the opportunity to get that different perspective.
Don't just talk about the problem.
Remember to consider and talk with your friends about what is working.
Rog has a great way of writing emails. He calls them the shit sandwich. Anyone who's received an email from us, you'll see this pattern. Good. Difficult. Good. So you start with what's working, you know, even just a kind comment about your partner or something they've done. Get into what's happening, the situation, the problem, and then remember to back that up with the things that you are grateful for that do give you a lot of encouragement and support in your relationship. It's not just for you. It's for the person listening as well. It's for the way that you feel about your relationship. What we say impacts how we feel? Very much so. So these conversations are really important because it'll flow on to how you feel when you come back and see your partner again. And lastly, I want you to keep this in mind.
This is just a, like, I guess, a really good litmus test as to whether you should say what you're thinking of saying. Imagine if your partner ever heard you. Now, I know neither Rog nor I would be offended if I overheard him talking, for example, to his best mate about an issue that had happened between us. If he was explaining it respectfully, seeking a solution, not personalizing the issue, I would have absolutely zero problem with that scenario. In fact, I would find it comforting that he wanted to seek support on the issue from someone he loves and cares about.
If, however, I heard him assassinating my character, saying it's something I do all the time, putting me in that category, using disparaging words about me, that would really, really hurt my feelings. So it's really important that we think, is this something we be okay with our partner hearing?
[00:15:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Then that makes sense. Because in the end, even though we might not feel comfortable around our partner talking about certain things yet, and we want to always work to get to that stage where we can talk to our partner about everything.
That doesn't mean that we should be okay with just saying whatever if it would hurt our partner's feeling despite them not actually hearing it.
I think what we might touch on briefly now is how this shows up for men versus women. And we're going to do this because it can be hard to be a bit, maybe not stereotype things or generalize things. So I'm going to say how it feels for me and, you know, take out of that what you want.
[00:16:11] Speaker B: Bring a bit of awareness to what might be happening for men more likely and what happens more likely for women, just so they can keep this atop of mind when they're thinking about having conversations in the future. Right?
[00:16:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And this is a scenario that can often play out. Especially what I'm going to do is perhaps talk about how I used to talk to my friends about Kim, because Kim and I have been together for 22 years. All our friends have known us almost as Roger and Kim for most of our lives now. So. And then how I talk about her now. And there is a massive juxtaposition.
So, look, in general, especially now, guys won't talk about their relationships or wives or wives a lot. And I think you definitely, we definitely want to get to a stage where that is happening more.
We will generally talk about organizational stuff, that sort of things. And it's not because I don't feel safe around my friends. I've known my friends, a lot of them since I was a kid, and I love them very much. And we talk about most things now. When I was younger, I would talk about my relationship more, but generally just complaining and moaning and blaming Kim for things that really, a lot of the time, weren't me taking accountability. And I did speak about this on the show where I talked about being relationship proud, because I think there's this thing out there blaming your partner for something you should be taking accountability for. So previously, what I might have done is if I was at the pub with my mates, I would have, and I had to go. I would have said, oh, I've got to go, kim. Kim will be pissed off where I go, oh, I've got to go. Kim wants me home, you know. Now what I'll say is, like I said, I would be home at 04:00 p.m. so I'm going to be at home at 04:00 p.m.
i want to go home, guys, so I can get on top of everything I've got to do in my life. That's the difference to how would I approach it?
I made a choice to be in a relationship. I made a choice to have kids. I've got to work. I've got responsibilities in my life. They're my responsibilities and no one else's. There are shared responsibilities, but I've got an accountable ownership of my part in it. So for me to blame my wife, my partner, the person who does so much for me, instead of taking accountability that is corrosive to the team structure. And I think it happens a lot with men. I know this because I used to do it and I do not do it now.
[00:18:43] Speaker B: That's a great insight, reggie, and I hope that that supports any of the blokes listening to this, to this podcast. I think from the female perspective, women will be pretty aware that they talk quite a bit to their partners, sorry, to their friends about their partners.
And in terms of how that comes up, one of the things I just wanted to raise in the awareness was something I used to do, a lot of which was jumping on the bandwagon. So if a girlfriend spoke about their partner, I would join in and double down with comments about you, you know, oh, men this and you did this and you know, he's so this and that personalization would come into it, rather than separating it and saying this is their issue with their partner. If I have my own issue that I'd like to raise, I'll talk about it afterwards. But women do definitely feel a sense of need to support a friend's position often. And this is where I say I've evolved with some of my really dear girlfriends who almost always will either listen attently and just let me get my concern out or whatever it is, and then come back with different considerations, or they'll challenge me. And that is a far more productive position than just jumping on the reassurance bandwagon. And I think women feel like it's our responsibility to reassure. We are naturally nurturers and we feel like sometimes it's the kind thing to do. But I would, I would love for everyone, every woman listening to just consider if that comes up in their mind, is that serving their relationship? Because we don't actually have to reassure our girlfriends. Our girlfriends are fine, they're absolutely fine on their own. And you can reassure without bringing your partner into the situation. You know, it can be a kindly word like that must have been so difficult for you. I can hear how frustrated you were, and you've got a lot on your plate, or you're exhausted at the moment. You don't need to reassure by adding in your own relationship.
[00:20:45] Speaker A: I really like that, sweetie. And I think, although some of it could be tied to the fact that we are way more mature now, obviously, at 40 than we were at 20.
I think also it's because we do put a team lens on things, and we realize that, you know, a team is about being safe and having each other's backs. And by talking in a negative way, as opposed to just getting support outside the team, we are corroding that team environment. We're putting that team environment at risk. And of course, you know, there can be a bit of cognitive dissonance in there where you feel like you're in a team, you want to be in a team, and yet you're doing something that is counter the team, and that can, as an underlying principle, feel quite wrong. So, yes, we do need to talk to our friends about how we might see get some support from them in terms of talking about our relationship and maybe having a bit of fun as well. Light hearted banter, you know, as long as there's not any negative connotation towards our partner keeping the team intact. But what about talking positively about our relationships? I reckon this happens even less than this taboo notion of talking about our relationships with our friends. It really doesn't happen much at all. And the truth is, one of the reasons Kim and I started this podcast is because people used to say to us, and they still do, is that, wow, you and Roger, such a great team.
Now, at first, we're like, yeah, probably we do look like that from the outside. But then after really thinking about, I realize they're just projecting back to us how we not only see ourselves, but how we talk about our relationship. Because there's been so many times, especially in the last five years, where our lives have been challenged a bit with everything that's been going on that we've really said, well, do you know what? Yeah, things are tough, but thank God I've got Kim. Things are really tough, but Roger and I are doing great. And they hear that they take that on board and then they replay that back to us without even thinking about this. So, yeah, we realize that we're actually really relationship proud.
[00:22:51] Speaker B: I love that little one to finish on. And we said that, you know, remember to say the good things as well. And I think, you know, if that's all you want to do one day, is just talk about how great your relationship is, that's great. Do that with your friends. What a. What a lovely thing to be able to do.
[00:23:07] Speaker A: So, Kim, what was your gold nugget from today?
[00:23:11] Speaker B: I think the gold nugget for me was that the research shows that it is really important to talk to your friends. It's not about not talking about your relationship, and I think that's an important distinction for people. Absolutely. Talking to your friends is beneficial to you. It's about just bringing that tame lens with you. How am I going to be a good teammate in this? How am I going to. What you said at the end there, preserve the safety. Because you are creating a. What's that? Meet the parents. What does he call it?
[00:23:38] Speaker A: Chink in the chain.
[00:23:39] Speaker B: The ring of trust.
[00:23:40] Speaker A: Or the circle of trust. I don't know.
[00:23:41] Speaker B: Circle of trust.
[00:23:42] Speaker A: Are you a chink in the chain?
[00:23:43] Speaker B: Green.
You want to keep the circle of trust intact. And I think keeping that team lens in mind, you'll be able to do that. And like you said, rogie, before you know it, your friends will be projecting back to you what you've projected outwards, which is that you have a great relationship, whether you've got issues or problems or not. That's not the point. It's the way that you treat each other as a teammate and the way that you support one another.
[00:24:10] Speaker A: I think that's great. So if you do want to talk about your relationship to someone, go ahead and do it. That's what we're here to do. We're trying to normalize relationship conversations. Just do it in a respectful manner that benefits the team. And what you'll find is you might actually make it more accessible for other people who might be struggling more in their relationship to start talking about it. Get your support and help them in their relationship.
You're amazing. You've just spent quality time on your relationship.
[00:24:46] Speaker B: Feel like you're on a roll. If you want more living the team life relationship insights and conversations, head over to kimandroj.com, where you can find all the show notes as well as tons of other relationship goodies.
[00:24:56] Speaker A: And if you liked today's episode, please hit subscribe or let another couple know where they can find us. It'll make them happy, and it'll make us really happy.
[00:25:04] Speaker B: Until next time, keep on living the team life.
