Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Fighting with our partner sucks. It's stressful, it feels awful, and it can bring out the worst in us. But did you know that it is also a critical part in the growth of a relationship? And that's what we're diving into today. How you and your partner can fight right and use the power of repair to not only resolve arguments, but also invigorate your relationship with a new sense of deeper understanding and connection.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: Hey, we're Kim and Rog, and we're here to show couples how to get the best out of their relationship so they can start living their dream life together.
[00:00:35] Speaker A: We're a West Aussie couple who are living the life of our dreams. We don't entertain the word should, we think about the future as a field of possibilities and we let joy be our compass.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: We've taken the simple idea of working as a team and applied it to our marriage and it's been a game changer, allowing us to work out what truly lights us up in life and to go after it together.
[00:00:52] Speaker A: From living in snowy Japan to starting our own house flipping business, we've achieved some big dreams. And most importantly, we feel fulfilled and are having the most fun we've ever had.
[00:01:01] Speaker B: Pick conversations from inspiring couples, thoughts from relationship experts, and tales from our own lives as we help you to gain the wisdom and skills you'll need to turn your relationship into a real team.
[00:01:10] Speaker A: These are relationship conversations for real people, by real people. So sit back, get comfort in whatever tickles you pickle, and enjoy living the team life.
Today we're talking about repair in relationships. Now, this is actually one of the most crucial and important skills or tools in your relationship toolkit. And before we jump into it, I'd actually like to give it a bit of context. So repair actually forms part of an important cycle that, that exists in all relationships. And there's one specifically I'd like to dive into, which is from renowned family therapist Terry real. And he calls this relationship cycle the cycle of harmony, disharmony and repair. Esther Perel also references this. She she calls it connection, disconnection and reconnection. But I think Kim and I preferred harmony, disharmony, repair, and that's where she got it from. Anyway, why this is important is because a cycle means that I guess it's recurring, it's a reoccurring loop. So it happens again and again and again. And a relationship will actually continuously move through these phases with each cycle offering an opportunity for growth, deeper understanding and an increased closeness. And also by recognizing that this is a cycle couples can also normalize the highs and the lows of their relationship and understand that they can approach conflicts with the constructive mindset and embrace the journey of building a strong, resilient partnership. Because, yes, we all love to be in harmony. Yes, it sucks when we're in disharmony, but we need to know how to repair to get back to harmony.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I think this is a great discussion to have, because the reality is we all end up in the disharmony state and in the repair state repeatedly throughout a week with our partner, often. And we add on to that some sort of expectation that we shouldn't be in that state. And I've spoken about this before, that that layer of expectation can actually cause things to drag on longer than they should. Because you personalize everything. You make it part of you. When really, if we just look at disagreements or disharmony and then the repair state as parts of a cycle, a natural part of a cycle in a relationship, we can sort of depersonalise it a little bit and understand and appreciate that it is normal to go through different states in these cycles because they are completely natural parts of a relationship.
Nothing in life is not cyclical. Everything has some sort of cycle to it. We go through different phases, no matter what it is, and the relationship is no different in that regard.
[00:04:07] Speaker A: Yeah. So you know that if you're in a state of harmony, at some point you're going to be in a state of disharmony.
[00:04:13] Speaker B: I feel hard to imagine at that point.
[00:04:15] Speaker A: You're thinking, life is good when you're in disarm. You're like, oh, my God, how are we going to get back to the place that we were? And that's what we're talking about today. We're talking about repair, but we'll go through harmony and disharmony first, just to, I guess, really understand those states as well. Well, yeah.
[00:04:31] Speaker B: So harmony, obviously is the foundation of the relationship, and it really represents the phase of the relationship where we feel very. Or the part of the cycle in the relationship where we feel really connected to our partners. Understood. We feel like we're in sync together. And during these times, we find that we can communicate really easily that there's a sense of mutual respect between the partners and affection towards one another. You know those beautiful moments you have when you look over at your partner and you just think, wow, how lucky am I? We're in such a great place at the moment. Things are flowing easily. We're having good gags together.
Life is pretty good.
[00:05:07] Speaker A: Nothing could go wrong.
[00:05:11] Speaker B: And the sort of feelings that show up when you're in a state of. Or really in a. In the part of the cycle where you're in a state of harmony is love, safety, a sense of security, a sense of mutual respect in the partnership, and. And a sense of effortlessness, that feeling of effortlessness in the relationship. Kind of like in sport, when someone says there's flow in what you're doing, you don't have so much effort required.
[00:05:40] Speaker A: To make relationship flow.
[00:05:42] Speaker B: Relationship flow. Oh, that's a great love.
[00:05:43] Speaker A: Let's do an episode on relationship flow.
[00:05:46] Speaker B: Okay.
And you feel very fulfilled. Those are the sorts of feelings that show up in the state of harmony. You guys will know what we're talking about here. Everything feels like it's just going right.
[00:05:58] Speaker A: Yeah. And look, sorry to be the bubble burster here, but then we get onto the disharmony, the inevitable conflict. And I use the word inevitable on purpose there because it will happen. This is the part after the smooth sailing harmony, when it gets disrupted. And look, you actually feel this chasm between the two people. And the differences that didn't seem to be relevant during the harmony phase actually become more pronounced. There's a rupture in the relationship, or you don't feel as connected as you usually do. It can be due to a misunderstanding, unmet expectations, conflicts, or someone just being a dick. It just happens. Now, look, during disharmony, couples may experience feelings of frustration, of anger, of sadness and loneliness. But I guess the important thing is in what we're talking about today is during disharmony, it's really important at some point to move on to the repair phase, you know? So how do we get through the disharmony phase? We need to repair. Repair the rupture. And you've heard this before, rupture and repair. You know, rift and repair. And this is what we're talking about here. And as I said off the top of the show, this skill is one of the most important skills. Repair on how you reconnect and rebuild is one of the most important tools in your relationship toolkit. But repair is not just about resolving a specific argument or a specific disagreement or blow up between two partners is actually core to building trust and hearts and emotional intimacy in a relationship. And actually, it reinforces the bond between two partners because it shows your resilience, it shows you're committed, and it shows that you both want to navigate through these difficulties together. Esther Perel again believes that actually, disharmony is one of the most critical opportunities you have in your relationship for growth because it gives you a deeper understanding of what each other wants or needs in a relationship. And she says that if you successfully navigate through the disharmony via repair, you can reinvigorate your relationship with a new sense of intimacy and connection.
[00:08:06] Speaker B: I think this is such an important point. When we're thinking about repair again, it's taking out some of that stigma around, oh, I had to repair my relationship and thinking because of that repair, I've actually got a deeper, better relationship. And you all will have heard people say at some point in time, it was some sort of rupture in their relationship and the repair that actually took the relationship to another level. If you think about people who say they're bonded to other people through adversity, they've shared an adversity together, they come out on the other side together. You do deepen your connection. When you share something difficult with someone else, that's a natural outcome of it. And a relationship, a romantic relationship, is absolutely no different, particularly if the adversity is really the nature of the communication between the two of you.
That's what you're working on together. So there is great opportunity in a disharmony state of a relationship to actually use that repair, to not only just resolve that sense of disharmony and that feeling in the relationship, but to actually grow and deepen the relationship. And I think that's where we differ now from ten years ago, when we definitely were just trying to resolve as quickly as possible the disharmony. But we weren't looking for any depth, and we held onto hurt quite a bit. And I think now when we repair, we, more times than not, we actually grow from that repair.
[00:09:39] Speaker A: Yeah, so I agree with that. And not only that, is not that it's in a relationship context, but I'm pretty sure, as Warren Buffett said, he doesn't trust anyone he works with until they stuff up, because he can then see how they react from stuff up. If they take responsibility and try repair and try to fix that stuff up, he goes, this is someone I can trust. This is someone who I can build a relationship going forward. But if they don't, then he's like, hey, this is not the person I want working in my organization.
[00:10:08] Speaker B: Yes. All right, so let's talk about the repair attempt. So we've talked about the first two phases of a natural cycle that the relationship experiences, which is harmony. Then we get into disharmony, and now we want to repair. We want to head back towards harmony. So first thing we want to talk about today in terms of the repair attempt is who can make a repair attempt. Now, both parties have a responsibility to make a repair in a relationship, regardless of who initiated the conflict. And I can hear people thinking, well, that's not fair. That wasn't me. That wasn't my fault. Do you know what I mean? We've all had those thoughts where we think, I shouldn't have to do this. And what I really want people to think about is actually separating the repair from the issue that you're arguing over. The issue you're arguing over is something that is a disagreement you don't necessarily see eye to eye on. But if we separate the idea of working as a team from the issue and we prioritise coming back to working as a team as a separate item to attend to, then the argument itself is something else. What you can think about when you come in and you want to make the repair attempt is whether you were right or wrong. Doesn't matter. I love this team and I want this team to head towards repair.
[00:11:30] Speaker A: So the onus is on both parties to make a repair.
[00:11:34] Speaker B: Oh, that was very adamant. Yes.
[00:11:36] Speaker A: No, I was just saying something important.
[00:11:40] Speaker B: Exactly. So we really want both to feel like it's for the relationship that you're making the repair attempt. Don't get caught up on whatever happened in the argument. Be focused on the fact that what you've agreed to be is a team. And a team wants to repair. That's what it wants to do. It wants to come back to the state of harmony because it's a good relationship and that's the place it wants to be in. And if we prioritize that over getting caught up on who did what and said what, we're going to move faster towards harmony as well. So I think that's one thing I really wanna say is, anyway, moving back to. Both parties have that responsibility to make a repair attempt in the relationship. Now, in terms of who actually initiates that, it can come in different forms. Sometimes you'll have one partner who will make the initiation because they will see that they've been a little bit silly. Sometimes a partner will realize they were flat out in the wrong and have crossed a line and they wanna make that repair attempt. Sometimes partners will just be in a better headspace. This is a really important one. Sometimes you can just show up more than your partner. Sometimes. I mean, Roger's really good at this. If I'm having a rough day or a rough moment, and I'm probably not being that great in the disagreement or the disharmony that we're in. But he will say, you know what? I've got more than Kim right now, or Kim did extra this morning in something that's taken a big emotional toll, maybe in a parenting situation. So I'm gonna stand up here and give more so that I can give her that space and try and make that repair attempt.
[00:13:11] Speaker A: Yeah. It's that compassion and empathy to understand that sometimes the arguments, and often the arguments, not about the actual subject matter, it's this wider feeling, or there's something where your partner just might be super stressed out and you do something or don't do something, and it just sets off an argument and just being the bigger person and going, hey, I'm not at fault, but I've got more in me. I've got a bit more energy, I've got a bit more capacity to actually hold that person. So I'm going to be the bigger person and come in and make the repair attempt.
[00:13:41] Speaker B: Yes. And while we're talking about who can make the repair attempt and saying that both have a responsibility, what we're actually saying in that is whoever makes the initial repair attempt, whatever that looks like, the other party still has the responsibility to respond to that repair attempt as a repair attempt themselves. So that's a lot of repair attempts. But if Rog, for example, came to me and tried to de escalate the situation, it's on me to take that and build on that repair attempt with a repair attempt of my own. And that's a really important part, because you can't have one partner putting all the effort in and the other just stomping all over that. Both of you need to be invested. And that's why I say, thinking about the team and the relationship separate to the issue, I'm invested in looking after my relationship more than I am in being right. 100%.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: 100%. Because, you know, just like the person who initiates the repair attempt, the other person has to recognise that the repair attempt is being made in the first place and going, hey, my partner's trying to extend an olive branch. They're trying to de escalate. They're trying to stop the fight.
[00:14:51] Speaker B: Yes. And I think that's something that, Rog, you're really great at in terms of offering the initial repair. But I will say I am very good at accepting that once I see that you've. And you almost always do it using humour, which is great, because I like gags and funniness. And as soon as you make a joke, nine times out of ten I will make sure that I offer an accepting space for that joke.
Something, an in joke back, some sort of response that says, I'm also wanting to make that repair.
[00:15:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
You do recognize that when I say something, I guess, humorous or try to be funny in an argument, that it is me trying to, I guess, create a circuit breaker, but at the same time, it's not always successful, but that's okay. And actually, failure can indicate a few different things.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. There might be something else going on, so you could have some underlying issues.
The person who initiated the repair may not have addressed the core concern for the recipient, or the recipient just may not be in a space to receive that very well yet, and they just may need more time. So don't feel deflated if the repair attempt fails. You can make another repair attempt.
[00:16:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Have another crack later on and maybe reflect on how you could make a better one. Which actually brings us to the next part of the repair attempt. So we just looked at who can make it. Now, I guess it's about when a repair attempt can be made. And we've identified, I guess, three key stages of an argument where a repair attempt can be made. So the first is before escalation. This is before things start to get really heated up. You might be within an argument at the start of it. The other one is mid escalation. This is when. Oh, Jesus, it's getting pretty hot in here. We're starting to raise our voices. Things are about to set off. That's another time. And of course, the third time where you can make a repair attempt is actually after things have completely blown up. And most likely you've walked away from each other or just before that point, you've asked for some space from each other. So we're going to go through those in a bit more detail now. I guess I'll start off with the before escalation repair attempt.
The before escalation repair attempt is actually proactive measure to prevent the disagreement from intensifying in the first place. Now, this is. This is really important because obviously the less heated conflicts you can have, the better, you know, because once things get really hot, sometimes they can be a little harder to resolve. And we're just going to give you some tips of things you can say there. If you realize things are heating up and you don't understand why, you might ask a clarifying question. Can you. Can you just help me understand a bit better about what you meant by that? Which shows a bit of a willingness to understand rather than assume and react. Defensively again, as Kim just said, you can use humor. You can make a light hearted joke. I think we talked about this on an episode recently where I'll often go like Anchorman and go, oh, that escalated a little bit quickly, and we'll both have a laugh. And of course, there's also an affectionate touch where you might just go, hey, look what's going on here. Can I have a hug? And let's talk about this a bit more calmly.
[00:18:11] Speaker B: These are really fun to do when you see that you have honed your skills well enough to be able to de escalate something before it escalates. So just, what do they say? Cut it off at the hedge, the edge.
[00:18:25] Speaker A: I have no idea why gauge here. Two cooks spoil.
[00:18:28] Speaker B: That's what my brain does.
[00:18:30] Speaker A: The stitch in time.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: Yeah, one of those things.
[00:18:34] Speaker A: One of those ones.
[00:18:35] Speaker B: You want to cut it off at the hedge or something.
[00:18:37] Speaker A: Cut it off the hedge.
[00:18:38] Speaker B: Don't want to cut the top of the heat.
[00:18:39] Speaker A: Nib it in the butt. Nip it in the butt.
[00:18:41] Speaker B: Yeah, nip it in the butt.
[00:18:42] Speaker A: Butt bud.
[00:18:44] Speaker B: Nib it.
[00:18:44] Speaker A: Nip it in the butt. What?
Nip it in the butt, Kim.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: Oh, my God. I am so bad at sayings. Anyway, you want to do those things.
[00:18:56] Speaker A: Quickly, leave their butt alone. We did just talk about affectionate touch.
[00:19:00] Speaker B: You want to do these things early on, and it's really, I will say it's really fun. And fun might sound like a weird word, but when you see things of just sometimes things tick over really quickly. You just say one thing that might trigger your partner a little bit, or they say something and you feel unseen. And because you've had a tough day, it just seems compounded in your. In your heart and in your mind. And to just have this tiny little quick, quick fix, deliberate effort to try and deescalate that and actually watch it work is a beautiful thing, and it's when you know your skills are building in the relationship. Yeah, exactly. All right, so that's before escalation. Those are those small ones, like Roger said, clarifying questions, using a little joke, a bit of humor, or even trying some affectionate touch. Then we have during escalation. So this is really when, you know, the arguments actually definitely started to heat up. So it's not just, yep, you've triggered someone a little bit, and you can see, like, a twitch in their body. They've maybe responded with a bit of a snarky remark or a little bit of a jab back in their mind.
When that happens, you really want to be moving to something a little bit more substantial in terms of what you're offering as the repair attempt. Thinking about things like acknowledging emotions. So we want to be looking for things that are going to break the circuit, because here we've got our partner, most likely heading into the fight or flight phase or freeze fight, flight, freeze phase, where they're just starting to lose contact with their rational brain on and off a little bit, which means they're more engrossed in their emotions. And so we want to use slightly more substantial things that are going to connect with them, maybe more on that deeper level where they're at, which is in their emotions. So saying something like, I see you're really upset about this, and that wasn't my intention. It can really validate your partner, and it can also let them know this isn't deliberate. I'm not meaning to do this, and I am sorry that it's happening. Another one can be taking responsibility, admitting your partner. Conflict can. Can be very powerful when someone's feeling really upset. I realized my words were harsh, and I'm sorry for that. That can feel really not just validating, but consoling that person. You feel safe again with that person. This person doesn't actually mean what they're saying, and they're not trying to make me feel unsafe. They realize that they've overstepped there and they're apologizing for that. So I am safe because everybody makes mistakes. Especially we can repair when we notice and acknowledge those mistakes. And another one is requesting a pause when we get really start to get really fired up, emotions start running high, and we can suggest a brief break and sort of a minimum of 20 minutes and giving a time to get back together. So you might say, I'll meet you at the outside table in half an hour, get some fresh air together and sit in a different space where, you know, you won't be disturbed, disturbed for a minute. And in that meantime, you've had some downtime to cool your jets and. And really get out of that really emotional state that you're in.
[00:22:00] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's not easy to do, to make the repair attempt during an escalation. And again, it might always be received because someone's too, like, they're flooded with emotions or, you know, things have gone too far. But it's really. It's really important, especially that last one asking for a pull pause. Because up until now, we've been able to, I guess, resolve the disagreement or the argument in the moment where the person's actually standing or sitting in front of you, when you ask to take a break, you're saying, hey, we're too emotional to come to a rational resolution right now. And that actually leads us onto the third phase. The third scenario when you can have a repair attempt, and that's after you've had time apart. So that's either you've called for a break because you saw things during the escalation saves going too far, or the fight has gone too far, and you've one of you or both of you walked away from each other. You know, these phases we talked about harmony, disharmony, repair from Terry real, the relationship counselor. He actually emphasized the importance of addressing these issues head on, and that's what we're going to talk about here. But of course, the first step is taking that 20 minutes to reflect and calm. Now, that 20 minutes is actually research based. Again, the Gottman's, who put research and data behind everything they do, said you need a minimum of 20 minutes to access that rational part of your brain to calm down, whether it's using box breathing, whether it's getting outdoors. But you need that space and time to reflect on how you are feeling, and not only that, and reflect on how your partner's feeling. Now, once you start to do that, it's time to come back together. The first step is to be reflective and get into a calm state. The next stage is to take accountability or to apologize. So if you believe you've done something wrong after reflection, or even if you believe you weren't initially at fault and you've said something hurtful or done something after that, it's really important that you apologize for the hurt cause, and not for the sake of ending the argument, but for actually trying to repair and validate your partner's feelings. This is what Terry real calls authentic communication. Because if you address it directly, you're actually preventing the build up of resentment and disconnection. So once you've done that, once you've taken accountability, and this is both parties, and once either one of you, or both of you apologize for your part in the conversation, you. You need to then revisit the issue, but do it calmly. Now, once you've revisited the issue, it doesn't have to be in super detail, but at least address what's happened. It's time to discuss both sides of the story, but validate each other. There's no right, there's no wrong. There's just. This is how I felt, and I want to understand how you felt. And you can say things like, I can understand how you felt that way to validate your partner's experience. Geez, it sounds like you were really hurt by what I said. I'm sorry about that, or, oh, wow, I didn't realize that's how I came off. So I'm going to take accountability for how I came off.
[00:25:14] Speaker B: I think this one's a really good one. I just want to spend 2 seconds on it because I think it's about understanding that you don't have to fully understand what is reality for them. You just have to have compassion and empathy for the fact that they're having an experience as a result of whatever. Their world is different to yours. Your partner may be your partner, but we each see the world differently. And appreciating their perspective and trying to understand it is the most important goal of this discussion. It's not to get your point across and convert them to your side.
[00:25:45] Speaker A: Yeah. So if someone, if your partner says to you, oh, you attacked me, don't say, oh, I didn't attack you. I didn't do that. Maybe say something like, oh, so you mean when I raised my voice to you, you felt attacked. I'm really sorry for that. And of course, the last step is to come to a resolution and understand you don't have to agree on everything. You can agree to disagree. It's more about working as a team and deciding what the next steps are so this doesn't happen again. Or is there something one of you or both of you need to change so this doesn't happen? Oh, and of course, as always, we've got a bonus step, and that is give yourselves a pat on the back for going through those five steps, for making the repair attempt, because we know it's hard to do, and it's awesome that you're working as a team.
[00:26:28] Speaker B: All right, rog, what was your gold nugget out of this pact? Full episode?
[00:26:31] Speaker A: Oh, there was a heap of information today, but we believe this is super important. Every relationship is going to go through harmony, disharmony, and then repair. So if you can get good at repair, you're going to spend more time in harmony.
[00:26:46] Speaker B: I love that. For me, it's really about staying focused on the team. The issues will come and go. They always do. But if we stay focused on the fact that we are a team, that we want to work as a team, that we want to be in the harmony state as much as we possibly can, and that we don't shame ourselves when we do get into the disharmony or repair states because they're a natural part of the cycle of a relationship. If we stay focused on that team, we work toward getting back to that harmony state together, and we can deepen and strengthen our relationship in the process.
[00:27:20] Speaker A: You're amazing. You've just spent quality time on your relationship.
[00:27:24] Speaker B: Feel like you're on a roll. If you want more living the team life, relationship insights and conversations, head over to kimandroj.com, where you can find all the show notes as well as tons of other relationship goodies.
[00:27:34] Speaker A: And if you like today's episode, please hit subscribe or let another couple know where they can find us. It'll make them happy, and it'll make us really happy.
[00:27:42] Speaker B: Until next time, keep on living the team life.
