Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:02 Who doesn't love a little coffee? Pick me up. It's a friendly energy booster that can kick you into another gear. But what if we told you there are a number of friendly energy boosters you can activate in your relationship? That's right. Even though the love chemicals we experience at the beginning of the relationship do wane after a while, there are other chemicals we can create more of by simply undertaking certain actions, a hug, more oxytocin, active date, more vasopressin. So get comfy as we unpack how to hack the love chemicals in your relationship. Hey, we're Kim And rog, and we're here to show couples how to get the best out of their relationship so they can start living their dream life together.
Speaker 2 00:00:42 We're a west Aussie couple who are living the life of our dreams. We don't entertain the word should we think about the future as a field of possibilities, and we let joy be our compass.
Speaker 1 00:00:50 We've taken the simple idea of working as a team and applied it to our marriage, and it's been a game changer, allowing us to work out what truly lights us up in life and to go after it together.
Speaker 2 00:01:00 From living in snowy Japan to starting our own house ripping business, we've achieved some big dreams, and most importantly, we feel fulfilled and are having the most fun we've ever had.
Speaker 1 00:01:08 Pick conversations from inspiring couples, thoughts from relationship experts and tales from our own lives. As we help you to gain the wisdom and skills you'll need to turn your relationship into a real team.
Speaker 2 00:01:18 These are relationship conversations for real people, by real people. So sit back, get comfortable, whatever tickles you, pickle, and enjoy living the team life.
Speaker 1 00:01:34 Today's podcast topic is about how to make the love drugs work for you in the enduring phase of the relationship. There are three stages of a relationship in terms of the chemicals that you receive. And look, I'm sure there's lots of different ways you could phrase this, but this is, this is one of the ways that we have experienced it, and it's certainly how research supports it. So we are gonna, we're gonna call it three stages. Stage one is the initial attraction phase. That's quite surface level, and that's where you experience those sorts of feelings of nervousness, anticipation, excitement. Uh, stage two is the emotional connection stage. That's where you start to build trust and attachment. You become more vulnerable, you expose more of yourself. You wanna test and you wanna be proven that this person is trustworthy for you, that they're going to keep you safe. And stage three is about the more long-term side of the relationship. So the chemicals you receive are more around bonding and, and long-term intent in the relationship. So they're, they're briefly the three stages. And what we're gonna do today is actually unpack those three stages, and particularly focus on stages. The chemicals we get in stages two and three because they're what come after the, the barrage of really fun chemicals you get when you first meet someone.
Speaker 2 00:03:03 That completely makes sense, those three stages. So if you think of stage one, it's like almost sometimes, you know, you know, some people say it's love at first sight, or when you walk into a room or you're at a bar or your friend introduces you to someone and you look at them, and even though there's maybe 20 other people there, your eyes lock with them or you just notice them and you get those butterflies. You know, stage two is where you're sort of stage
Speaker 1 00:03:27 One. Sorry, I gotta jump on that one. It's that one where you can't stop thinking about them, right?
Speaker 2 00:03:30 Oh, yeah. To totally, yeah. And for some reason you just seem to focus on them and, and no one else may be in the room, and that's just your body and brain going, ping, ping, ping, ping. Now. Now, stage two is when you're sort of feeling each other out and going, is, are you gonna be a good mate? So you're, you know, you're dating and you know, you are, you are having big dms with each other and you're really starting to, I guess, you know, bond and maybe do it and stuff like that. So, uh, <laugh> stage,
Speaker 1 00:04:03 I think that gets done in stage one, my friend.
Speaker 2 00:04:05 Okay. <laugh>. Yeah, I'm not that sort of guy. Um, and stage three is, I guess that's more that long term, you know, you're gonna get married kids and actually makes up most of our lives, especially our romantic lives together.
Speaker 1 00:04:20 Yeah. And just thinking about, I guess what sort of, uh, feedback we get from the hormones in the different stages. In stage one, the hormones, which we'll talk about in a minute, what hormones show up for us, what chemicals show up for us, it's the heavy hitters, right? They're, they're, they're heavy hitting hormones in that they have a lot of, they give a lot of feedback to you and they hit you hard. So you get a lot of them. There's a lot of, because because they're driven by things like attraction and you're very attracted to the person. They're just, they're present there for a lot of the time. So stage one is more heavy hitters and, and stages two and three, uh, they have a different sort of, um, impact to the hormones. So you have to do a little bit more of the work to get them to show up because it's not as simple as being attracted to the person. So, so there is sort of a difference in how much you naturally and easily get those hormones in stage one versus stages two and three in that enduring phase of the relationship where you have to work a little bit more for them.
Speaker 2 00:05:21 And why this is so important is because, you know, a lot of people in the enduring phase of their relationship will think back to those initial phases or when they were dating the person they're with or other people, or they might see someone else out and they get maybe a bit of a flutter of passion and stuff like that. And they'll go, why, why don't I feel that now with my relationship? Is it because I don't love that person? Is um, have we changed so much? We just, we just don't have that connection. And what Kim and I want to talk about today is, well, actually a lot of those feelings are natural, and in a way we're sort of wanna label and talk you through, um, these important chemicals and how you can work with them and how they can work with you. Uh, so you can get past that feeling of, oh, maybe, you know, I'm not with the right person, or maybe we're not so special anymore.
Speaker 1 00:06:14 Thank you so much. I forgot to actually say why we were talking about this today, and I just think you've said that so nicely, Roger, because firstly, yes, the things do change and we feel differently, and sometimes we think, oh no, this isn't the person for me because I don't have all of those incredible feelings I had at the start, which are really, really intense and fueled a lot by these, by these chemicals. Uh, but the other reason, the other flip side of that for today is actually if you learn about the chemicals that you can, you can activate yourself in stages two and three. So in the enduring phase of your relationship when you're learning to bond and trust, and then more long-term, think about more, think about the longevity of the relationship and what you want for the future together, you can really make these work for you.
Speaker 1 00:07:02 Are you going to get the, the fun chemicals you get at the front end? Fun's? Probably not. Are you gonna get the big chemicals you get at the front end? Not so much. But there are some great ones here that we're gonna talk about today that you really can make work for you as your relationship continues on. And we certainly see in a lot of our natural behaviors, we are reaping the rewards of those chemicals. We, we naturally do a lot of the things in our relationship that give us these chemicals. And, and we absolutely think that's a huge part of the success in our relationship.
Speaker 2 00:07:36 Yeah, knowledge is power. Yes. Once you know what's going on in your body, you can then, I guess adapt how you act to make those chemicals work for you. So, so you called it
Speaker 1 00:07:45 Biohacking when we talked about this.
Speaker 2 00:07:47 I, I call it biohacking. Well, that's what everyone's talking about. So you can biohack your love here. <laugh>. Maybe we should change the episode to that biohack your love. Yeah, biohack. Find out, I guess. Okay. So let's go through the three stages in more detail, sweaty and okay. Um, identify those chemicals.
Speaker 1 00:08:01 Okay, so stage one we, we spoke about, which is that initial attraction stage. It's quite surface level. There's a lot of excitement around being attracted to the person I said before, a lot of nervousness, anticipation, they're all the common feelings then you, that you get. And the two main chemicals that show up in this, in this space are dopamine and norepinephrine. So I'll break out very briefly what, and again, like I'm not, I'm not a, um,
Speaker 2 00:08:31 Biochemist, I'm not
Speaker 1 00:08:32 A biochemist, I'm not a psychiatrist. So if I get this a little bit wrong, I do apologize, but I do my best. So dopamine is the pleasure chemical. Most people have heard of dopamine associated with the feelings of, um, pleasure, but also excitement and anticipation. And it has a strong reward and reinforcement, um, component to it. So the more you get, the more you want of the dopamine. So what it means is when we see someone that we feel attracted to and we get this hit of dopamine, these feelings of pleasure come through as a result of the, the dopamine that's released. And those pleasurable feelings are really nice for the brain. And so the brain then seeks out that person to actually get more of those feelings of pleasure. Again, you become repeatedly motivated, I guess would be a one way to put it to, to hang out with that person. And that's why we find ourselves, when we meet someone constantly messaging them and wondering what they're doing and wanting to bring them up in conversation because we do wanna see more of them. We want more of those good pleasurable feelings.
Speaker 2 00:09:41 Yeah, we, we know a lot about dopamine these days because of all the, I guess, side effects of social media and the, the doom scrolling and the likes. And, and so I think we're, uh, people are a lot more knowledgeable about how dopamine can affect your brain and your body where you are constantly pleasure seeking. But from an evolutionary perspective, of course, the human race, our and our bodies want us to procreate. They want us to go out and find partners and all of you in the dating game or when, you know, 20 years ago when Kim and I were in the dating game, you know, you get lots of setbacks, you get lots of, you know, broken hearts, but they don't want you to then give up and Oh, I'm not gonna go out and procreate anymore. They want you to keep going after it, right? They want you to keep on finding someone new, finding someone good, and pushing and pushing until you procreate and, and have mates. Now we live in the modern world, so it is a bit different, but that's where it comes from.
Speaker 1 00:10:39 That's interesting. Does that mean that if you were just fueled by that and not any of the social rules that we have that we wouldn't be monogamous?
Speaker 2 00:10:48 So there's a lot of conjecture around whether, uh, especially males would be monogamous beings, because in the end we just wanna procreate as much as possible. But then of course, from an evolutionary perspective, humans have one of the long, have one of the longest childhoods, especially when they're infancy, where they're absolutely useless and need full-time protection. And so actually you do need, and we're talking back in hunter-gatherer, and before days, you do need a male while the woman is taking care of the baby to make sure that the saber tooth tigers or other, other males
Speaker 1 00:11:31 Fed as well, right? Like they've gotta go,
Speaker 2 00:11:32 Can protect, can protect them during that stage. Yeah. And, and, and keep them, keep them fed. Yeah. Uh, although, you know, I think studies show a lot of, um, you know, women with their foraging and stuff actually fed a lot of the tribe a lot of the time as well. So yeah, from an evolutionary perspective, there's those two things at play. One, go out, make kids, and then two, there's the, okay, well actually we need the male and the pair bonding and the long-term relationship's important. And funnily enough, even though we're, we're jumping ahead a bit there, that's really important in terms of the chemicals and stages two and three, because those chemicals are around making sure that the, the partners stay together to continue the growth and I guess best outcome for the child.
Speaker 1 00:12:19 Oh, that's very interesting. Thanks, Roger. There you
Speaker 2 00:12:21 Go. <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:12:22 <laugh>. Uh, yeah. So the next, so dopamine, obviously we're, we're seeking out that, that pleasure state, uh, in the, in the beginning stage of, of meeting someone and starting to date someone. The other, uh, neurotransmitter I mentioned was norepinephrine. And norepinephrine is that butterflies in the stomach? It's that real, um, excitement. I mean, those butterflies in the stomach are so fascinating because they are both exciting and scary, and that's because they're reflective of that state of fight or flight. That's really what the response is in the body. Um, so you get increased heart rate, nervousness, those sorts of things that come with fight or flight. And norepinephrine is an interesting one. One of the reasons that the brain seeks out more of it is because norepinephrine makes us feel more alert, right? When we're in that fight or flight, our body is actually hyper alert and, uh, all our senses increase and we're able to focus more specifically on something.
Speaker 1 00:13:22 So that can also be quite attractive to the brain to have that sense and feeling of alertness and focus. And in terms of how much men and women receive of dopamine and norepinephrine when they meet, it varies in the research from what, what we looked at. But in general, both genders do receive dopamine and norene or norepinephrine commonly in the beginning stages. What something was, something that was interesting to me that I read was that because men find physical appearance so important in terms of the attraction, that can be a bigger driver, for example, of the dopamine hit you get. Whereas for women, their attraction may be queued more by, uh, cognitive and emotional cues from a potential partner that, that I did find kind of interesting. Well, at
Speaker 2 00:14:16 The start of the potty, you called these ones the heavy hitters. Uh, and that's because they, they, they're there to do a lot of the groundwork because, you know, sometimes we can get super lazy. We just wanna sit there eating our buffalo and our, our, uh, what's the other one? Wooly mammoth and stuff like that, <laugh>, and, you know, just chilling. And, you know, we, like, we gotta get up, we've gotta get off our rock PlayStation and go out and find some, some, some girls. And for women, they've gotta make sure that, you know, yes, they're, uh, attracted to a partner, but they've gotta make sure that those partner's genes, uh, are good enough for them to, to pass on to their child. So there's this constant evolutionary to and fro between the man and the woman and our bodies. But the point is, is that our bodies are doing a lot of the work at this stage, and that's really important. So we go out and procreate. So those feelings, you feel they're natural and they're naturally heavy hitters.
Speaker 1 00:15:16 I love that. All right, so that's stage one. That's really the initial attraction phase. The next two stages are the stages that we really wanna talk about today, because as we said, there's this kind of large distinction between stage one and stages two and three when you start to build up your emotional connection and then become longer term focused. And when you don't have as much of the dopamine and norepinephrine showing up, that's when people say, oh, you know, it was so exciting in the beginning and I loved it, and I felt so amazing and, you know, now everything's more routine and blah, blah, blah. Well, yes, literally that is what ha is happening inside your body as well. It's not getting all the fun, exciting, you know, scary, nervous, those sorts of things, that it shifts into a different phase. But there are other chemicals in this phase that can be really advantageous.
Speaker 1 00:16:05 So let's break into stage two. This is the emotional connection stage, and this is where couples become more vulnerable. You think about that time in your relationship where you start to reveal those bits of yourself. I mean, I remember with Roger starting to talk about some of my past and things I'd struggled with, my eating disorder was one of the things that I started to feel safe enough to share with you. And you were sharing with me the chronic fatigue that you had struggled with in school, which was actually quite difficult as a 18 year old male to talk about. Um, and yeah, what was happening then for us was two chemicals at play, one oxytocin. Most of the mamas out there are gonna be familiar with this. It's the love hormone. Um, and it's, it's commonly released with physical touch and also just intimate interactions.
Speaker 1 00:16:50 Uh, so that doesn't have to be sexual. And, and another one that I think really plays a big part for women is, uh, positive social experience. So you have a positive social experience with your partner. Uh, it can, it can cause oxytocin to release, so sharing, going out to some sort of event or being taken on a fun surprise date or something. So the oxytocin, and in terms of men, men and women, we do both get it. Although research has suggested that it might be a bit more prominent in women because it has actually an interplay with estrogen. Yeah. So anyway, oxytocin, the, the love hormone.
Speaker 2 00:17:28 Yeah, it's, it's the bonding, it's the bonding drug in the body. It's the bonding chemical. And funnily enough, you know, on living the team life, we do like to be pretty cutting edge here. Uh, but there's some new research around this chemical called vasopressin, and it's actually, studies have shown that perhaps in males, this is the main bonding chemical, and this is the main bonding chemical for males to male and male to females. And I'll take you through some, uh, high level studies. So studies have found that levels of vasopressin are higher in men who were in committed relationships than men who were not. Also, another study showed that men who received injections of vasopressin have reported feeling more bonded with their partners. Now, there are a couple of theories around this. Uh, one theory is that the chemical does promote pair bonding, and it actually does this by increasing the fillings of trust and attachment and hits the reward center of the brain.
Speaker 2 00:18:26 There's another theory that perhaps it actually decreases stress. And what that does is allow the flow of oxytocin more. So, you know, there's Adam Lane Smith, there's a guru on this subject, and he actually talks about, uh, young men during the world wars who didn't know each other, came together, obviously had a very stressful situation, but would be able to meet up 40, 50, 60 years later and be like, brothers, uh, you know, still have that core bond. And he believes it's because the vaso press and under that high stress situation of war and how they bonded was one of the reasons why in the future they'll always able to come back together and be so close.
Speaker 1 00:19:11 That's so interesting. I mean, one of the things you're describing, I'll just, just touch on is the like bidirectional relationship of chemicals, right? So they will have bonded because va va vasopressin, as you call it, was released as you call it, as it's called, was released when they were in wartime together, for example. And then when they see each other, the brain is gonna remember like, it's going to release that vasopressin really quickly because it's gonna be queued by that person again, right? So they're gonna get that hit again, even years and years later. So it, it's just like a self-fulfilling cycle, isn't it? You, you, the vasopressin causes you to bond. That means when you see each other, you have the sensation of being bonded to that person, which it then causes the vasopressin to be released again.
Speaker 2 00:19:55 Yeah. Well, I think that's actually almost core to what we're gonna talk about here today, is that when we talk about making the chemicals work for you, is that you've actually gotta put yourself in a situation and do the work up front to get those chemicals going, which will then in turn give you back the reward and push you to do more of the good behavior that you are doing in the first place.
Speaker 1 00:20:18 Yeah. So just summarizing stage two, we are looking at the oxytocin, the love drug that, that, um, causes us to feel attached and bonded to our partner and also at the vasopressin. And again, little bit of research suggesting that oxytocin may be a little bit, um, more prevalent, women vasopressin, a little bit more prevalent in men, both driven by different things for the different genders. Uh, but basically in this phase, if you can instigate those, uh, chemicals, then you are going to be more feeling, more bonded and more attached and more trusting in your relationship.
Speaker 2 00:20:52 A hundred percent Beautiful.
Speaker 1 00:20:54 Uh, okay, so stage three is the mutual support, long-term bonding stage of the relationship. And we like to call the stages two and three, really the enduring stage of the relationship because it's when you've shifted from that initial lustful really excitement, excited stage to the, to this part of the relationship where you have to work a little bit more. So in stage three, the difference between this and stage two is really being focused more on a longer term outcome. So thinking about this as a real partnership and having that mutual support and that long-term, uh, mentality and approach to the relationship in this space. And during stage three, the what we see, uh, pop up, the chemicals, the love chemicals we like to talk about are, uh, serotonin and endorphins. So, uh, serotonin is a mood regulator. People might have heard about this in terms of, uh, people struggling with depression or anxiety. Um, there are drugs that alter the, uh, uptake of serotonin in the body so that they can feel a little bit more regulated because it does have such an impact on mood and endorphins. And, and I'm sure anyone who's gone to the gym before <laugh> has heard about someone saying, oh, I go to the gym for the, you know, the endorphins. And that's 'cause they're the feel good chemicals and, and they are released through, uh, pleasurable experiences.
Speaker 2 00:22:23 You're right, serotonin, endorphins show up in stage three. But also those chemicals we talked about in stage two, the oxytocin ambassador pressin, still around, still around, still around. Yes. You know, and, and this is really important as well to have these things. 'cause again, we said these are the bonding chemicals. And if we think about stage three, that enduring stage that is happening generally when we are in long-term committed relationships, and maybe we're married, maybe we're not, but likely we've got kids, we've got a house with a mortgage, uh, life's real. It's getting hard things happen to you in that later stage of life. But we often forget then to trigger those chemicals that are really important to us. So while we had the heavy hitters at the front end doing the work for us, yes, at the back end, those chemicals are there. They're wanting to get triggered, but they're not being triggered because we're not doing the right things to trigger them. And a couple of months ago we did a episode called Love is a Doing Word, and that was all about how love isn't just gonna be there. And those feelings, uh, aren't just gonna be there for the rest of your lives. You actually gotta proactively go about going about and working on them to get those rewards in your relationship. And it's the same concept to get the reward from the chemicals that you need, you need to go out and do love.
Speaker 1 00:23:48 Oh, I just love that you've connected those two. They are so beautifully connected. A lot of what we describe in the, um, in the actions in love is a doing word. And what we just, what we suggest, I should say, for you to feel more, um, connected by doing love, the underpinning that is that the chemicals, that's what you're gonna get back for it. It's not just, it's not just feelings. Those feelings are impacted by the chemicals. So
Speaker 2 00:24:13 We talked at the, the, the title of this episode is How to Make the Love Chemicals, how to Make the Love Drugs Work for You. So we're actually gonna take you through that now. And what I want to do is set the scene here. So there's a movie called Jerry McGuire <laugh>. I think most people know it or most millennials know it as well. Tom Cruise and Cuba Gooding Jr. Probably at their best. And in that movie, you can think of yourself as Cuba Gooding Jr. And you are in a long-term relationship and you are going to Jerry, show me the money. Show me the money. You are saying, get those chemicals working for me. 'cause Jerry McGuire's your body and Jerry McGuire's going, oh, okay, I I I hear you, but help me help you. Help me help you. And so did, did that make sense sweetie
Speaker 1 00:25:03 <laugh>? Maybe if you've seen the movie A Million, did I a million times?
Speaker 2 00:25:07 Did I have you at Hello
Speaker 1 00:25:09 <laugh>?
Speaker 2 00:25:10 Oh, I was waiting for
Speaker 1 00:25:11 That. How great. Do you know what I was actually thinking? I know everyone thinks it's the Tom Cruise, um, Renee Zoga relationship in that movie, but it, for me, it's Gooding Junior and his wife. Yeah. Because she is, she is on him with him. Like, it, it's, they have the most beautiful relationship. They are a team fighting for this outcome together. Yeah. And if I was to idolize from a team perspective, one relationship in that movie, it would not be, you had me at hello, it would be Cuba Gooding Jr. And his wife in it. 'cause they're awesome.
Speaker 2 00:25:45 Show me the money, Jerry.
Speaker 1 00:25:46 It's just such a fun scene. It's great. Really wanna do it. But I know I'm gonna sound terrible.
Speaker 2 00:25:50 <laugh>. But again, the point is that you are sitting there going, oh, I just wish I had those feelings that I used to have. And your body's going, Hey, we're here. We got them. Yeah, yeah. But do something. But you need to make the first step. You need to be proactive and you need to do something. You know, Jerry's saying, your body's saying, you've gotta dance for me. Cuba, you've gotta dance for the people. Oh man, I'm so into that movie now. Let's watch that movie. No,
Speaker 1 00:26:12 Jerry doesn't say, you gotta dance for me. Yeah, he does, does JR. Says, you gotta
Speaker 2 00:26:16 Dance for me. No, no. The the point, the point is that Cubic Gooden Jr. Has to dance when he hits the touchdown. That was the scene he dances then everyone goes up, baby. I know the movie was
Speaker 1 00:26:25 It? Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:26:26 Okay. So, okay, let's dig that
Speaker 1 00:26:28 Out. We'll,
Speaker 2 00:26:29 Okay, we'll
Speaker 1 00:26:29 Check that up.
Speaker 2 00:26:30 No, it's true. <laugh> <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:26:34 You, you almost always know movies better than me.
Speaker 2 00:26:36 I think so. Um, yeah, I have a a
Speaker 1 00:26:38 Goldfish memory too.
Speaker 2 00:26:39 Let's go through, you know, Kim can, Kim can help the out here, especially when it comes to the women. But you know, I think if we want to help our bodies help us, you know, with oxytocin for example, I think some great ways is the the touching each other, the skin to skin. Yeah. The handholding, hugs, cuddling, massages, all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1 00:27:00 Oh, a hundred percent. You give me foot massages and that for me definitely increases my sense of attachment and my bond to you. I feel the
Speaker 2 00:27:10 Oxytocin,
Speaker 1 00:27:11 The, well, it's the foot massage that does it, but it releases oxytocin for sure. I feel so lovey towards you in that moment because you've done that thing for me. And, and it's not just you doing something for me, it's something that involves touch and the touch feels amazing. So I'm not saying you have to give someone a foot massage, but the other part of that is you often surprise me, you just walk out with a towel and some and some massage cream and it's just, it's so sweet that you do that out of, out of nowhere for me. Well, it's an
Speaker 2 00:27:41 Act of kindness. It's a surprise. Yeah. And those things, they sort of, they trigger the oxytocin and they
Speaker 1 00:27:47 Actually, that's a good point that that is actually distinctly like a little act of kindness is said to trigger oxytocin as well. So, you know, or a surprise. So showing up somewhere, I don't know, after work to pick your wife up or, and, and having a coffee in hand, you know, something little where you're like, oh, they thought of me. That's so sweet.
Speaker 2 00:28:05 Oh, a hundred percent. And I think another one that works really well and um, you know, for guys and girls, but a good one for guys is to build trust. Trust actually releases oxytocin. And you can see from an evolutionary perspective it's because well now the woman is taking care of the kid and she needs to make sure that the husband take care of her and the kid, you know, that they're not a risk. And so while evolutionary the, the mindset changes from I need to have a baby to, I've gotta protect the baby for, to make that work for you as a guy, the number one way to build trust is to do what you're going to say you're going to do. And don't do the thing you say you're not going to do. That's just,
Speaker 1 00:28:46 Just stick with do with <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:28:49 So do the thing. Don't over complicate. Say you're going to do yes. You know, follow through and don't lie. You know, when you, when you build trust in relationship, when you do say you're gonna do something and then you actually do it and you build that pattern of behavior that really triggers that oxytocin between you and your partner.
Speaker 1 00:29:06 Yeah, definitely. I think whenever you, your partner says they're gonna do something, you look up and they're actually doing it. It, it feels really lovely <laugh> to know that you can count on them. It's not just, oh, thank God they're doing it. It's like, I can count on that person. They've got, they've got me.
Speaker 2 00:29:22 Yeah, a hundred percent. So that was oxytocin. Now with vasopressin, again, this is, this is fairly new, this research around it guys and girls, if you wanna bond with each other, especially from the male side, is that you've gotta actually work as a team to achieve a challenge or quest together. Go do a quest because that's how men used to bond back in the, in the hunter gatherer days. They go, okay, we've gotta go kill the saber two tither or the woolly mammoth. We're gonna have to track it for two or three days and we're gonna do that as a team to work together. And that's how they bonded. And it's the same thing that chemical works for guys and girls, men bonding with guys and men bonding with girls. So go out on a hunt with your partner.
Speaker 1 00:30:05 Go out on a hunt <laugh>. Yeah. What are you hunting for? <laugh>?
Speaker 2 00:30:09 Doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 00:30:11 I think the one, one of the things that I I researched was that, um, that support in times of stress. Is that one of the parts of the hunting thing that you're talking about?
Speaker 2 00:30:20 Yeah. So there's the, there's an idea that one of the ways, again, we talked about the, the male going off and, um, on this three day journey to go kill the wooly mammoth or the saber tooth tiger. Well, what it is, is a stress test of the relationship. Hey, we're gonna be under immense stress or the, the young blokes in World War ii, there's a stress test there. And under stress, you proved your worth. We can see this in the workplace. We can see this on the footy field for example as well. And it's the same in a relationship. It's like you are showing each other under stress. You can, I guess perform and be trustworthy. I oh, that can have her back and trust you. Oh,
Speaker 1 00:30:56 That's different. Okay. So that's one thing. The other thing that I had read was in times of stress, how the person responds to your stress can really impact, um, vasopressin. So vasopressin, however you wanna say it. Um, so actually for example, if your partner is experiencing a really stressful moment and you show them support, that can pump you full of vasopressin and co bonding, which makes sense. And I think back to that first car accident you had, and I supported you afterwards and we were so young, we were babies. But I remember you saying years later that that was a defining moment for you in how you felt towards me.
Speaker 2 00:31:35 Yeah. What happened in the first few months of our relationship. Yeah. And you know, it was a little fender bend, but it was my first one. I was a bit stressed out. You know, I had the old Volvo station wagon, but me, me te coming and saying something to you and telling you about it and you're not goggle, you're a bit of an idiot, are you? But going, oh babe, you know, I'm, I I was worried about you. Are you okay? And that all of a sudden that that really did build my bond to go, Hey, I, you know, that's pretty special and I'm, I'm, I'm feeling the, I'm feeling the oxytocin, the VAs press in me <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:32:07 I don't think 18 year olds you said that, but yeah. Uh, okay.
Speaker 2 00:32:12 My body was saying it that and other things, <laugh>, <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:32:16 Moving on stage three, the, the dominant ones we talked about with serotonin and endorphins. Uh, if you want to, if you wanna instigate some, some serotonin, um, you wanna be looking at things like, uh, shared activities. And one of the big things that we rabbit on about is do active dates. They are so amazing because you are, you are out there doing something, sharing an experience together. And this absolutely will boost your feelings of happiness and, and, and bring about that more supported mood regulation. Help you to feel more relaxed and calm and regulated in the relationship, which is one of the big things that serotonin does. Another way to instigate serotonin is to, uh, celebrate one another's achievements. So we spoke a minute ago for the vasopressin in terms of supporting each other through stress. If you wanna release that nice mood regulator, the serotonin, celebrate your partner's achievements.
Speaker 1 00:33:15 So when your partner comes home and says they've had a little win, or even if your partner's been stressing about, you know, asking for a pay rise or something and they managed to have just the conversation, that in and of itself is an achievement. Even if the outcome isn't what you hoped for, there are so many ways of seeing achievements in your relationship. Achievements are not always so lit, literal, and logical. Yes. Just trying in, in any event is an achievement. Uh, so the last one, endorphins we talked about and the beauty of those active dates is this is another way you can pump some chemicals, which is endorphins. So you get the serotonin and you get the endorphins, which is like a two for one. Awesome. So basically physical activity really promotes the, the endorphins. So, you know, go for a kayak together. Go for a bike ride together.
Speaker 1 00:34:03 Go for a walk together, you know, go and play. I don't know, um, a spirited game of bowls. Do whatever it is that's physically active together. You start moving. Just think movement, shared movement going, moving together. Go to a Zumba class together if you both like to dance. Anything like that is gonna help pump you full of those endorphins. And another really cool one for endorphins is sharing a joke. And I 1000% think this is why you and I get the, get the fun chemicals so often because you are such a jokester and you are constantly making us laugh.
Speaker 2 00:34:40 Yeah. Oh no. We make each other laugh, you know.
Speaker 1 00:34:42 Oh, did you just call me funny?
Speaker 2 00:34:43 I think I did. Oh my god. <laugh>. All right. So, um, well I think you can tell we've had a bit of fun on this podcast as well. We try to lighten it up 'cause we're talking about chemicals and you know, we're not biochemists uh, we're not psychiatrists. But these are actually fairly simple principles of how to get your body to help you do the work, especially in the enduring phase, the long term, uh, commitment phase of a relationship, which I think most of the listeners or the podcasts are. So Kim, what was your golden nugget takeout from today?
Speaker 1 00:35:15 My gold nugget for this episode is definitely that you can hack these. Like, if you wanna think about it, like you said, as a biohack, you can hack the good stuff. It's, it's like a support for your relationship. It's going to make your relationship better without you having to do extra work. If you are naturally doing these things, which are kind to your relationship and good for your relationship, you get this extra, I don't know, it's like the fire button on a rocket or something. It gives you that boost and it, and, and I think that's so super cool to think that you can add that, add that impact in your relationship by doing the things that you would want to be doing for your partner anyway. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:35:52 And when you get those chemicals flowing, they actually prompt you to then go do more of the thing. Exactly. That release the chemicals in the first place. Yeah. You know, you become addicted to having a great relationship. You are amazing. You've just spent quality time on your relationship.
Speaker 1 00:36:11 Feel out you're on a roll. If you want more living, the team life, relationship, insights and conversations, head over to Kim and roger.com where you can find all the show notes as well as tons of other relationship goodies.
Speaker 2 00:36:22 And if you like today's episode, please hit subscribe or let another couple know where they can find us. It'll make them happy and it'll make us really happy.
Speaker 1 00:36:30 Until next time, keep on living the team life.
