Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hey, team, it's Kim here. Rog, our little one and I are all down with a shocking flu this week and we figured you probably wouldn't want to listen to us coughing, spluttering and sniffling our way through an episode. So instead we thought we'd do something a little different.
Over the past 12 months, we've shared skills and tools to help you build a stronger, healthier relationship. Today, we've pulled out one key skill from each of our top five episodes this year. Think of this as a highlight reel. A collection of the most powerful, practical tools we've talked about.
Each one is simple, actionable and backed by research, so you can start putting it into practice straight away. Let's dive in.
People were always telling us, you guys are such a team. And we began to realise this just isn't the case for most couples.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: But we knew from our own experience of turning our relationship into a team that change isn't just possible, it's inevitable. All you need is a little direction.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: So that's what we do on this show. We steer you in the right direction. We keep it simple. We show you why relationship struggles show up and how you can start changing your relationship today.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: And we bring the good stuff by turning information from leading relationship experts and evidence based research into easy to understand skills and tools that anyone can use.
[00:01:18] Speaker A: We also share insights from our own 23 years of experience together. And we chat with some incredible couples who offer their wisdom on relationships.
[00:01:25] Speaker B: If a better relationship is what you want, then get comfy. Whatever tickles your pickle as we prepare to dive into all things team.
[00:01:32] Speaker A: We're Kim and Rog and this is the Living the Team Life podcast.
Our first skill comes from episode 89 where Rog and I asked, do you and your partner actually have a plan for 2025 or are you just hoping things will fall into place?
We've learned the hard way that when couples don't plan, it's so easy to end up stressed or pulling in different directions.
One of the simplest ways to shift that is with a visualization exercise, picturing your perfect day one year from now. It's such a powerful way to ground your goals in what really matters to you both, instead of just ticking off tasks without a bigger vision.
[00:02:12] Speaker B: Yeah. So Kim's excitement is very, very infectious. So once you've decided to make a plan together and you've set up the space and you're ready to go, the first thing to do, and I love this is, is a visualization exercise.
So each of you will take A turn in this and yep, it doesn't matter. It might look a bit funny when you're both at the pub and one of you starts closing your eyes and, and, and, and talking and, and having that, that sort of burst of inspiration. But you know, who cares? Like you're doing something really cool. So the exercise is pretty much you ask each other the same question and then you spend the time to go through it.
So the question you're going to ask each other and you'll sit there, One of you will sit with the eyes closed and the other one will ask the question.
Visualize your perfect day from waking up to bedtime one year from now.
This is all about imagining where you will be. Visualizing where you will be if everything goes right, if you followed a plan, worked it, and succeeded and achieved it in 12 months time.
Now some of you might start talking about pina coladas on the beach or driving Ferraris. Now that, that's not, that's actually not a bad thing. But if you want some help and some prompter questions, you could ask. How do you feel when you wake up?
How does our relationship feel? You know, how's our relationship with the kids going? What are they doing? How's work going? Have, have you changed your job? Have you gotten a promotion? Have you started working fewer hours?
Are you feeling strong? Are you feeling fit? Have you just done a fun run or started a new fitness routine? Are we on holiday somewhere? Somewhere you've dreamed of? What have we achieved? Something you didn't think possible?
So help them through this exercise. Take your time and then write down the key things that you took out.
[00:04:02] Speaker A: Of it each and get into the detail. Visualization is about living in that one day. Yeah, it's not about, you know, have I, oh, at work, I've finished Project ibn.
[00:04:11] Speaker B: Say, what did you have for breakfast?
[00:04:13] Speaker A: If you finished A, B and C, then you'll know somewhere in that day. You'll probably be in the office in your visualization and you'll be working on Project D. That will tell you you've already done the other three. So visualize exactly the day, what you ate for breakfast. How did it taste? Where were you sitting? What were you looking at? What could you see out the window?
What did you feel when you woke up? Was it the warm embrace of your little toddler sneaking into bed? These are the things that are important because it tells us what really, really matters to us. What are the feelings we're trying to get out of life the way we want to live our life?
[00:04:47] Speaker B: Yeah. What this does is it really grounds your plan, what you truly want out of life, not what you think other people want. And not just ticking off random goals that actually don't matter to you.
[00:04:57] Speaker A: Yes.
Next up is a big one. Feeling that your partner truly has your back. Rog and I have had moments where we've missed the mark on this and it really does sting.
In episode 93, we explored how little moments of support can make or break trust. One of the key steps we shared was this.
Take their side, even if you don't fully agree. Standing shoulder to shoulder in the moment and saving the differences for later in private shows your partner that you're a team through and through.
Alright, Step two, take their side, even if you don't fully agree. This one is a really important one and it's a difficult one. It's not the easiest, especially in private, when you might be thinking, what are they on about? They seem so erratic or difficult today. That's exactly when you need them to stand, when they need you to stand with them, not against them. It doesn't mean you're saying they're 100% right. It means that in that moment you're showing solidarity first. And this is particularly important in public, involving friends, family, co workers, any sort of social settings. Your role is to back them up first because what you're doing there is saying, you're emotionally safe, I got you, I've got your back. And you can talk them through the rational stuff later, but if they feel unsafe, they. Unsafe, they can't hear any of the rational stuff anyway. If in public you say to your partner, in front of everyone, say, they're getting, there's six of you and four people in the six group are disagreeing with your partner. And you can see they're getting worked up and they're feeling, they're feeling attacked, they're feeling like their point isn't getting, getting across. And you think, I could see both sides of this. Maybe I'll explain both sides. But no, don't do that, just support them. It's not about saying they're right, but it's about saying, you know, maybe you just say, I can see her side of the argument, you know, and if you feel like it's both sides you need to talk to them about later and say, you know, maybe there was, there was a bit in the other argument. Fine, do that later. At that point they're already starting to feel insecure. You can see the overwhelm. So if you pile on and give them more Reasons to feel insecure. They're not going to hear anything else in that situation. They won't have even heard what anyone else said. All they heard or was that you didn't have their back in that moment. I know some people are gonna be thinking when I say this, well, I don't wanna just blanketly agree with my partner. It's not about blanketly agreeing with your partner. It's about blanketly supporting your partner. So I've always got your back. If I can see you're overwhelmed or I can see you're struggling or whatever it is. You know, if, if I'm having a debate with someone in public and Rog sees it and I'm fine, then he just lets me debate it out. I don't need him to step in at that point. But if he feels like he can see, look, she's getting a bit overwhelmed by this, then, then he'll step in and give me a little bit of support. You know how to do that? Exactly that. Physically step in, even just step in and give them a rub on the back. You alright? You know, it says, I'm here with you. We come as a team. Avoid correcting them and minimizing their feelings in, in front of other people. Exactly what I said before. There's no need to correct them or show devil's advocate in that moment. They're not gonna, they're not gonna manage that. So just be the partner that they need, the, the safe harbor they need. And, and make sure you offer their. Sorry, you acknowledge their emotions before offering any sort of different perspective. And this is probably more of a private space suggestion. So, you know, you don't want to be having detailed emotional conversations with your partner in public. That's, that's not fair. But if in private you guys are having a situation and you can see they need you to have their back and you guys are on a different page at that point. At least start with acknowledging their emotions because it's saying, I, I do put your emotions first, I do have your back in that space. The rational conversation, we might have different perspectives, but in terms of where I see you and how I want you to feel, I want you to feel safe.
[00:08:47] Speaker B: Yeah. There's a purity to step two, you know, taking the side. Even if you don't fully agree, because that's what being a team's about. It's about having their back no matter what. And how cool is it that your partner would see that, you know, they had your, you had their back and then afterwards you go oh, yeah, look, I didn't agree. And. And they go, oh, wow, you didn't agree, but you. You stood up for me there. Or you said you did, and I was like, yeah, I'm your teammate. I've always got your back.
[00:09:12] Speaker A: In episode 86, we talked about how easy it was to slip into scorekeeping. I did this, so you should do that. The antidote. Practicing what the experts call radical generosity. Instead of competing, you go above and beyond for the good of the relationship as a whole. It's not about keeping things fair. It's about shifting into a team mindset where both of you win.
[00:09:35] Speaker B: So if you really want to embrace the team, which. That's why you're listening to the podcast, we've got a bit of a hack for you, which is from renowned. From renowned relationship therapist Harvl Hendricks and Helen Le Kelly Hunt. Sorry. Oh, that's a tongue twister. Helen Le Kelly Hunt. When it comes to couples who are keeping score and fighting over scarce resources, they have an antidote, and they like to call it radical generosity. Radical generosity is when you go, try, go beyond mere fairness. You start looking at things from the team from the combined, from the collaborative point of view, instead of the individual, the selfish, the. The singular.
You start going, what can I do for my partner today? What can I do for my relationship today? Knowing that as a whole, that that is going to have a better outcome in the long term for you and for the relationship.
[00:10:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Nikki and Pat, we, who we interviewed a little while back, talked about this is one of their relationship strengths, I think, as one of their key strengths. Values, even, or values, was it. I can't remember. Somewhere in there, and it really struck us because we had never heard from another couple the word generosity be used as a. As a description for a strength or a value in their relationship.
It's such a powerful thing when you think about it, this idea that your partner wants to be generous to you. We all talk about in life showing kindness as almost too liberally used now. You know, just be kind. Just be kind in the world there. It's become sort of like a cliche, throwaway term, but there is a depth to that.
Being kind to someone, being generous to someone, that has a huge impact on that person. That sense of. As I spoke about a second ago, that sense of being nurtured, of being loved by someone, this is how you build intimacy and connection with someone. This is how you build an unbreakable bond with someone where you know this person goes above and beyond for you. You Know how special your relationship with this person is. And that's what radical generosity offers. This is opportunity to level your relationship up to a space where the, this is what you two do for each other in this world. No one else does this sort of stuff for each other. This is the level you guys are at, is above anyone else. You're operating within the world and you show each other this kindness, this nurturing that is so special that your relationship becomes so unique and so wonderful that you build this really deep intimate bond and connection with each other. And it's a self fulfilling prophecy. When you behave like that, you want to behave more like that because that's who you see yourselves as. That's how you experience the world. We are the type of people who are kind to each other. We are the type of people who are generous to each other. And so all of your decisions start getting made through this lens. And that's when you experience that higher level of relationship outside of the, the, I can only say the minutia level of tit for tatting. It's, it's a higher level of operating in your relationship.
[00:12:54] Speaker B: Yeah. So instead of sitting there going, how well I've done this five times this week. They've only done it three. It's like, hey, well, I'm just going to keep doing it because I'm here to support them. And I might say, hey, I'm going to pick up the load this week. Extra. I can see you came home and jumped on your laptop.
Yes, it wasn't great. You ignored the kids. Yes, it wasn't great. You ignored that, ignored me. But you're really focused right now. So I'm going to come in and I'm going to say to you, I'm going to do A, B and C to support you in this moment right now. Because I know this is something that you're working on. And you've. We've talked before about maybe getting a promotion. We've talked about, for, about the stress you're under and that we've had, you know, interest rates go up and we do need more money.
So what can I do to support you? Or I re. I realize that I'm not just going to do 50, 50 to reduce the mental load in the family and start, you know, doing the dish stacking and unstacking the dishwasher once a day. I'm going to take that on board as my job from now on. It's about looking at what extra you can do for your partner. Going above and beyond because you know, it's for the benefit of the team, not just you. It's not about getting something in return for you. It's about doing something for your partner and then doing something for the team.
[00:14:07] Speaker A: Yeah, And I think that bit's really important because I think you can. You can still be tit for tatting, even when you think, oh, I'm going to go above and beyond.
Well, now I've gone above, so why haven't they gone above? So you need to be mindful that you're going above, because that's who you believe you are. You believe you're a generous partner. You believe you work as a team, and that's what a team does. And I think to. To maintain that ch and balance on yourself that you haven't slipped into tit for tat, even when you think you're going above and beyond and in that generous, generous spirit is. Is keeping awareness. And that means an open dialogue. So what's critical here is that you are talking to your partner. If you do notice, like you say, Roggie, that there is a disparity in something. And you say to yourself, well, that's okay. I'm going to go above and beyond in this space because my partner's working really hard to progress themselves forward this month. And, and we've agreed that that's something that we want to do as a team, and it's having that open dialogue. I see what you're doing. I see that we're doing this for the team, you know, keeping that awareness between the two of you so that it doesn't slip into any of that. Because resentment builds when we start telling stories to ourselves about why and what is happening. It's a lot easier to eliminate those stories and be a team when we're having open conversations.
[00:15:27] Speaker B: That's why they call it radical generosity, because you actually have to rise above even when you're starting to wane and going, hey, I'm being really generous here, but I'm still not getting anything back. You just got to keep going. I promise you your partner will pick up what you're putting down. They will notice the effort. It might take a little bit longer than you first thought, but that's why it's radical, because you actually got to push beyond that initial, I guess, belief and discomfort that maybe things won't change. You just keep changing. Your partner will see what you're doing for them, especially if you start to be empathetic, empathetic, as you said, and start talking through how they're feeling.
And then they'll start going, okay, one, one. They see me too.
I can see now what they're doing. And do you know what you're gonna. The team's gonna get it back in spades. And you're part of the team. So are you.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: Now, resentment. This one hits close to home for a lot of couples we talk to. It's one of those quiet relationship killers that can build up fast if you don't address it. In episode 76, we broke down how to spot resentment early and talk about it in a way that heals rather than hurts. The research is clear. The way you start a hard conversation often predicts how it ends. Using a gentle startup and I statements helps you share your feelings without blame and keeps the door open to empathy.
[00:16:47] Speaker B: Even if you do talk all the time with your partner about little hard things, the big hard things can be really hard to talk about still. So we have some tips on how you can bring up some difficult topics with your partner.
So the first tip is use a gentle startup.
Dr. John Gottman says that 96% of conversations that start with a harsh startup the opposite of a gentle startup or will end up in a negative zone.
96%. You're going against the averages there, guys.
Next, use I statements.
Express your feelings and take responsibility.
For example, I appreciate how much you handle for us. I was quite worried when you made that big purchase without us talking about it. Can we please go over our budget together so I feel more secure about our finances and, and we can work through this together.
[00:17:47] Speaker A: Oh, I love that example.
[00:17:50] Speaker B: Accept that there's going to be initial discomfort. Trust me, the first five minutes are going to be hard, but if you get through those five minutes, you are going to be proactively working on your relationship and making the rest of the conversation easier and letting go of that resentment.
[00:18:09] Speaker A: Oh, they're great, really, about really getting yourself in the right headspace, coming in with a positive mindset, avoiding blame. So you just, you move away from any harsh startups and taking responsibility, expressing your feelings. I, I love that. That's a really great space. And I think when you're doing all this in the conversation, just remember to bring a stance of empathy to it. So bring a perspective of this is my position in this conversation, but my partner has another position and we actually had an empathy conversation yesterday. I said to Roger, we had a big issue and I said, I've been thinking a lot about this from your side and it's worrying me that this is going to be upsetting to you. And we really talked about what was actually happening from his side because I had spent a lot of time imagining what might be happening. And I think that was a very connecting conversation. We, we, we increased our emotional intimacy.
[00:19:04] Speaker B: As a result by just, by putting yourself in your partner's shoes, you're actually helping that heaviness you've been holding.
They're actually taking it off you for a bit because you're saying, maybe I was thinking about this wrong or maybe I didn't see this from their point of view.
[00:19:20] Speaker A: And finally, from episode 90, Habits, the Little Things we do every day can either build connection or slowly erode it. The good news is habits can be swapped. We shared a simple three step process. Identify the bad habit, place it with a better one, and then reinforce the new pattern with positive feedback. It's simple, but it's exactly how real change sticks over time.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: So step one, identify the bad habit and what triggers it. I think most of us know our bad habits not right in the moment, or our partners do, or our partners have told us about them. And if it's your partner's habit. So for example, sometimes when they're in the moment, pointing it out isn't always going to work. But if you can come at them with a bit of empathy and as a team, you know, like saying, hey, when this happens, I feel this instead of, you always do that, you always do this. There's a good chance that they'll take that on board and you know, like everything realizing, identifying that there is a bad habit and what actually causes it is, is the first step we're talking about here. So awareness is the first step. And, and by the fact that you've actually noticed that you're already ahead. So for me, you know, one of the things with the stonewaller was actually this was brought up in our, in our couples therapy. We did maybe what, 15 plus years ago. Yeah. And you know, that was really helpful and it was a safe setting for us to talk, for Kim to tell me about something really powerful. And I think I knew I did it, but I guess I didn't have the broader context and didn't understand the impact it had. And of course, you know, I understood. We were in couples counseling, you know, things had to change, we had to get better.
And so I was like, this is something I can do, this is something I want to change.
[00:21:06] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, it was a, I think that's a great example because it's outside of the stress of the moment, in a very safe space in that Instance. And you took that on really well. And we then were able to discuss why you felt like that was happening, what was behind it. Why were you worried to engage all of those sorts of things, which not only helped us to. Or helped you to amend the habit, it also helped me to have more empathy for you when the habit did show up.
[00:21:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: Okay. I know Roger's struggling here. It's up to us to work out of this habit. It's not on you to change your habit. It's on us to change it.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: Yeah. It's not just because I'm a massive dick. It's. I can't actually break free of the habit, but I want to break free. And I think that's a huge fit. Did you want to sing that I'm a massive dick? Or try.
[00:21:58] Speaker A: What song is that.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: Rog? Top 100.
[00:22:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:03] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:22:03] Speaker A: Should have. Should have broken out into it. I want to break free.
[00:22:07] Speaker B: That's definitely getting deleted.
Okay.
[00:22:10] Speaker A: Okay, Step two. Okay. Step two. We jump straight over, swap in a healthier response. So stopping a habit is really hard, as we all know. You will have heard before that it's easier to replace a habit than just nix it, because nixing things is difficult. And you're gonna come up in these situations where you've gotta respond somehow to someone. So if the. If. If you wanna create a new habit, you need to think about a more productive response and a great. Again, this is a really lovely opportunity for you to have a great conversation with your partner and say, I. I've been thinking. I would really like to change that habit. Or if. If the partner initiates and says, I would really love for us to find a better way through these situations because it's hurting me. When you're doing A, B, and C, could we talk about that together and work out a way as a team for us to change the script and change the habit here?
So one of the things that can really help you to work out or stay committed to a new habit is actually just thinking about why you want to change it. Just that simple one. So when you have that connection conversation with your partner to discuss what a healthier response might look like, you can talk about why, I want to be a great husband. I do want to listen to you, or I want you to feel seen, you know, for me, I want you to be able to converse with me. I don't want to dominate you. That's not fair at all. I want to be an equal partner. I want you to feel like you've got an equal say in things. And I certainly don't want to be a schmuck that is overrunning you because that's just utter arrogance and ego. It's so unfair. That's not the human I want to be. So for me, when I talked about this with Rog, I, you know, I knew I wanted to be a teammate, and that really helped me to stay committed to replacing the habit of wanting to win with wanting to hear Roger's side.
[00:24:10] Speaker B: Yeah. So instead of, like, you know, I. I need to win this argument. Otherwise, I'm losing. It's like, what. What. What is the win. Win for the team here.
[00:24:20] Speaker A: I need to win. Hear this. I need to hear this argument because I want us to be a team.
And that's our little highlight reel of relationship skills from the past year. Rog and I hope you found at least one thing you can put into practice this week. We'll be back with fresh episodes as soon as we're back on our feet. Until then, keep practicing those skills. Keep showing up for each other, and remember, you're on the same team.
[00:24:48] Speaker B: You're amazing. You've just spent quality time on your relationship.
[00:24:52] Speaker A: Feel like you're on a roll. If you want more living the team life, relationship insights and conversations, head over to kimandroj.com where you can find all the short notes as well as tons of other relationship goodies.
[00:25:02] Speaker B: And if you like today's episode, please hit subscribe or let another couple know where they can find us. It'll make them happy, and it'll make us really happy.
[00:25:10] Speaker A: Until next time, keep on living the team life.
