#03 - The Benefits of Being a Team

Speaker 1 00:00:04 Remember that team you were on as a kid that you just loved. It made you feel safe, like you belonged. It gave you a place where you had a shared purpose and you worked together to achieve it. Today, we are talking all things team in the relationship, starting with what being a team means and going all the way to how you can start becoming a team in your relationship today. Hey, we're Kim and Rod, and we're here to show couples how to get the best out of their relationship so they can start living their dream life together. Speaker 2 00:00:31 We're a west Aussie couple who are living the life of our dreams. We don't entertain the word should we think about the future as a field of possibilities, and we let joy be our compass. We've Speaker 1 00:00:40 Taken the simple idea of working as a team and applied it to our marriage, and it's been a game changer, allowing us to work out what truly lights us up in life and to go after it together. Speaker 2 00:00:49 From living in snowy Japan to starting our own house ripping business, we've achieved some big dreams, and most importantly, we feel fulfilled and are having the most fun we've ever had. Speaker 1 00:00:57 Hey, conversations from inspiring couples, thoughts from relationship experts entails from our own lives. As we help you to gain the wisdom and skills you'll need to turn your relationship into a real team. Speaker 2 00:01:07 These are relationship conversations for real people, by real people. So sit back, get comfort from whatever tickles you, pickle, and enjoy living the team life. What is a team in your mind? Speaker 1 00:01:26 So I think a team is, uh, a group of people. So one more than one persons, um, which I guess probably is the definition of group, uh, that are working together towards a common purpose. So they have some sort of understanding and clarity around what their objective, their goals, their purpose is together, and as a result, they also have a partnership of, of sense in some sense. So yeah, common purpose, partnership, uh, sense of, yeah, that's Speaker 2 00:02:09 I think a com. A camaraderie. Speaker 1 00:02:10 A camaraderie, definitely. Speaker 2 00:02:12 Uh, and, uh, that camaraderie based about working towards a common goal. And I guess you can juxtapose that with, uh, people who, a group of people that might not actually be a team. So most sporting teams are teams, but some are far more successful than other teams. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if you asked every player in the AFL and cause we are talking about teams today, I'm gonna use a lot of sporting and especially Australian rules, football references. Um, if you ask any footballer in the afl, we say, what's your goal? And it's to win the premiership. Like there's not too many who would go, oh, it's to win the, the highest individual honor, which is the Norm Smith medal, or the, or the brown low, which the norm Smith medal for best on ground in a grand final and the brown low for the best player of the season. Speaker 2 00:02:57 Um, they're more like, they're, they're pretty much, 99% of them gonna say it's to win a premiership. Yeah. And yet are they putting forward the, the effort is everyone else in their team, their group, um, their club aligned to that effort? So, or an organizational chart, for example, if you've got an org chart, uh, a course that it's a group of people that's cascaded down from senior to frontline staff, and is they, you say, oh, I've, I'm in a team, but obviously other teams are more effective than others. So, you know, that team to be effective, uh, and high performing has to have a common purpose and a goal. And each person have bought in and working towards that as opposed to a group of people on a team who were there just for themselves, just to get their work done at the end Speaker 1 00:03:42 Of the time. So kind of that we have a defining factor is that common purpose, if, if I'm understanding you correctly Yes. Is that you can be in a group of which sports groups are groups, <laugh> Yeah. But that doesn't necessarily make them a team. And just to bring it back to couples, because that's what we are here for. And relationships. They can be in a, a group that's a group, the two of them, they're in their own group, but not necessarily a team with a common purpose. And I guess that's what Speaker 2 00:04:16 Differentiate. Why, why do you think that is? Speaker 1 00:04:18 Why do I think that Speaker 2 00:04:20 They Yeah. Well, why, why do you think that we put so much time and effort into, um, sports and organizations becoming teams, and yet, uh, in a relationship we might not always be in a team? Speaker 1 00:04:33 Um, I, I think that's a cultural thing. The reason the, I mean, there are, there're a, this is a deeper question, but there are a lot of reasons why we've evolved to this space. I don't, I don't actually believe it was always like this. I think when life was simpler, maybe harder but simpler, you had to lean into your family because that's what kept you alive quite literally. You know, safety was paramount and you were safer when you were in a unit. I think today safety looks different. It's, it's more of a, uh, psychological issue than it is of a physical issue for, I'm talking obviously about the western world here. Um, I acknowledge that it is quite different in other parts of the world. But I think today because we have come so far in the way we live our lives from a a physical safety standpoint, we focus on other things. And we have really the luxury to say <laugh>, that we want independence in our relationship. Speaker 2 00:05:47 The individual pursuit. Speaker 1 00:05:49 I think the rhetoric around that, um, that, uh, keeping your, keeping yourself, keeping your, uh, keeping your own identity, and I, this is something that we are quite passionate about, is that we don't actually believe that you lose those things when you are in a relationship. In fact, if you become part of a team, you gain clarity and honesty in all of these areas, which actually heightens your ability to truly live as yourself and, and live the life that you want. But, sorry, I'm a bit all over the shot, but an answer to your question. Why do I think today that we have so many relationships that don't feel like they're a team? And that's what people have said to us before. I don't feel like I'm on a team. I really, you know, that's the word that you and I bandy around a lot, is that we, we are a team. Speaker 1 00:06:45 And I think when people respond with, I don't feel like I'm on a team with my partner, I would love to be a team. I think the reason that that is such a big issue is largely attributable to the fact that people have been told for generations now that it's more important to retain parts of yourself, to seek out your independence. And, and really what that's done is, is caused a divide and a separation and a, an erosion of trust in the relationship and an erosion of connection and an erosion of opportunity for, for, uh, creating some sort of unit and, and bubble that can advance itself. It's all about the individual. Speaker 2 00:07:31 And maybe it's a bit of an overcorrection because I guess on average, um, in more of a patriarchal structure, uh, there was, you know, the man who's in charge and the woman who does what she's told. Now, of course, it's things how they should be, where each person should be given their own freedom in individual agency. Um, depending on no matter what the, um, you know, age, sex, race, what, whatever. Um, however, perhaps then it's the actual f form of a couple or relationship or a marriage that needs to change. The definition needs to change. Cause I know looking in the PD space, the personal development space, everything's about the individual. How can you be your best? How can you, um, strive and achieve your goals? How can you, uh, 10 x your life? Um, but the fact is most of us have made a commitment to another person. And so if everything's about the individual, um, and yet we've decided to, uh, couple with someone for the rest of our lives, something's gotta give. And, um, generally it is, I feel people feel it is the individual or it is the couple, when in fact, by putting the team first, which is what we espouse, we believe you can actually get more growth and more benefit as an individual by putting that relationship first. Speaker 1 00:09:02 I think you're right. I, I heard you say about sexism and, and that, you know, that that's sort of at the root of perhaps why we've got this conversation now, which is, you know, people trying to retain parts of themselves or whatever you wanna call it. I think that was a direct response to men being challenged in their roles in the traditional household where they were the head of the house. Uh, you know, most people 50 years ago, 60 years ago went to church to get married. The women were asked to, um, to swear to obey their husbands. And it was quite, quite literally like that the man was the head of the household to what degree households practiced, it would've varied significantly, but that's really what it was. And as women fought for their feminist rights, um, or just their rights in a, in a, you know, a feminist framework as they fought for those, and we started to see women gaining more rights. And I, I don't, I dunno if I heard you right, I think you said that now it's equal. Speaker 2 00:10:05 I didn't say equal, I just said there seems to be a, there still still seems to be a push and pull and I think it's the, the relationship structure that might be getting a lot of the blame, um, or not blame, it might be getting a lot of the, it might just be, it hasn't, the relationship structure hasn't adapted and there's not enough thought and effort being put into it. And that's why you Speaker 1 00:10:29 And I, okay, so anyway, not equal, but we moved away from the, the really, we are moving away from the really traditional patriarchy, um, in parts of the world. Again, obviously in some parts of the world we're seeing just it as horrendous as ever, but in the parts of the world we moved away. I think that the response was from men, largely, well, my freedoms are being diminished, and so I need to retain a part of who I am. It's so, this, this is where I actually think the conversation comes from. I think you see a lot of women saying it now because it's a response to men saying, well, I need to retain part of me. And women are like, well, what about me? You know, I'm, I'm, Speaker 2 00:11:17 I just got my independence Speaker 1 00:11:18 <laugh>. I, well, and, and also like, we know, we've talked about this before, that women do a greater share of the housework on top of working now. So old mate off having his freedoms and and retaining part of himself when, when a woman getting that. And so I think there has been a response from women saying, well, I need my independence as well, because they're, they're trying desperately to, to find that equality again and f and fairness in the relationship. And to be honest, for most of most women, and I totally understand, find your sanity when you're at home all the time, or you know, when you're swamped between work and home, whatever the situation may be, you need a break from it. Uh, and I think that's how I see that having, you know, obviously it's, it's a, it's a, um, it's a synthesized view, but that's how I see this situation having evolved to, to what it is now, which is that we almost have this fight for our own rights and separateness in a relationship out of fear of not being able to carve out enough for ourselves. And I think we're not having, we're not having conversations around how to be the team, how to, how to work together to give one another. What we both need and what we are talking about is really a different approach to life. Speaker 2 00:12:46 Yeah. Well, I, I think the points you make a, a fair, valid, um, I think from a man's point of view, I agree. Uh, what I'd say is I think a lot of men are actually, I feel men are viewing it in the wrong context. And cuz they are sitting there going, Hey, um, I'm losing some of my agency now. I'm getting a part of my me taken and that's actually affecting my definition of masculinity. That's, you know, while I think really, you know, the old school definite of masculinity itself and chivalry, for example has been bastardized. Because when I think of masculine and sh and chivalrous, I actually think of someone who's honest, who has great integrity, who supports and respects their partner and his children and his friends who would do anything for them. Um, who may open a door for someone, but not because I'm the man. Speaker 2 00:13:45 Uh, you know, you know, I, I'm doing this, you know, for whatever reason it's because it's just a nice thing to do to respect. I walk on the roadside of the street, for example. That's just a sign of respect and safety. Um, when we talk about a couple bubble, for example, which we will talk about many times, um, a couple bubble is important in terms of having that safety between the two people and that knowing that that person always has your back. So I think that the definition for men, um, of masculinity and of virtue has been skewed over the last 20, 30 years. And of course there's an extreme, I don't know if you call it right, but there's an extreme masculinity version now. But for me, I feel that by entering into a relationship, like you'd enter into, um, a, a team, a sporting club. So if I'm the best player in the football club like Christian Pro Tracker, if I decide to put a, give a team first attitude, it's not because I'm sitting there going, I'm gonna lose some of myself. I'm sitting there because I want to have some alignment and a greater purpose, and I'm gonna be the best individual I can be for myself, but also so I can give the greatest output to the team. Speaker 1 00:15:06 I got a little bit lost on the masculinity and how that's linked to Christian for Tracker Speaker 2 00:15:11 <laugh>. Uh, look, I was just making a, um, I was just making a link between by Beca. So if a bloke thinks that, well, if I put a woman on equal footing to me and the team, or if I, you know, if we take a team first approaches, then I'm not in charge. I don't make all the rules, then I'm giving up what society says is masculine is male, I'm giving up my definition. And I was just referring back to say, a footballer who might be very proud, like Christian tr pka, who's the argue, the best footballer in the competition and who wants to do the best for himself, but obviously needs to lead a football team out on the ground. And he won the Norm Smith medal when they won the grand final last year. So he was the best player on the ground in the most important game of the year. But he's putting the team first. He's, he's espousing values and virtues, which put the team first, not how many, uh, touches and free kicks and whatever he gets. Speaker 1 00:16:10 So I guess what I'm hearing from you, ROJ, is really around the idea that you don't have to give up the self. I guess that's what we're we are talking about, right? What you're saying with Christian P Tracker is you don't have to give up the self to, to advance the team. And yet this is something that we've, that we feel like we are hearing back from other people in relationships is when we talk about the fact that we live what we call the team life and we live as a team, that people are nervous about what, what that will cost them individually. And I mean, the irony of this to me is that not living as the team costs them already. Because I think there's like a progression of disconnection and disintegration in the relationship as you, as you try more and more to hold onto yourself without having a coming together of the couple to discuss what the team priorities are, what the team goals are, what the team purpose is. Speaker 1 00:17:20 You become like adversaries, you're both trying to hold onto your own world and your own needs in a competing space. There isn't that overlap or that team objective. And we we're not saying only do everything for the team, not at all part of living the team life is getting clear with your teammate on what you need as an individual and having them support you. So yeah, I think that it's, it's kind of interesting that that perspective exists when, from what we've seen of relationships that do sort of exist in this fear state and this competitive state, is that that just causes the relationship to, to continue to break away as people try, try to fight for something of their own. Speaker 2 00:18:11 The the friction, the constant friction just, and it heats up, right? Yeah. And it gets hotter and hotter and, um, then you get fireworks. Look, I think one of the reasons is, is in general we're time money, it's all limited resources. And just like any business, uh, you are fighting over those limited resources Speaker 1 00:18:34 Rather than pulling and, and understanding how to put them towards fu the future together and a and a joint sense of purpose. And I guess that sort of brings us to, you know, what, what are some of the a great outcomes of becoming a team? And it is when you pull your resources and pull your mental capacity and physical capacity together, what are some of the great things that come out of being a team? Speaker 2 00:19:00 Yeah, I I think there's a lot of, um, benefits, uh, to being a team in that, you know, I, I've spoken about this before, that the corporate consulting and corporate management, um, market is a 20 billion industry in Australia. And that's because the businesses, uh, and say with sporting teams, they recognize the power of having an effective team. Uh, Google through project Aristotle have identified five key features of an effective team. Uh, and really those features are benefits. If you think number one was psychological safety. So when you're a psych in a psychologically safe environment, um, because you feel safe, you can be more yourself and your performance is higher. Uh, dependability, when you depend on someone, when you can depend on someone, you can focus on your task without taking mental, uh, and stress strength away from thinking, oh, I wonder if, um, they've got my back. Speaker 2 00:19:58 Or wonder if they're doing their part for the team. Um, structure and clarity, if you know what your partner's working on and that they're working towards and what they're working towards and that they're working towards the same goal as you, uh, you are a lot more likely to be able to achieve your goal and align what you are doing with them. And meaning and impact is, is the la are the last two. And I think that c that meaning is always that common goal. And when you've got meaning in your life, we know it leads to better health outcomes. Mm-hmm. And impact. Well, we all want to be here. We all wanna make a difference, don't we? And knowing that what you are doing is actually having an impact in both your lives, in your kids' lives, and perhaps even on the world, um, I think that's something that we all strive for and it it gives us that purpose. Speaker 1 00:20:44 Yeah, it's amazing the benefits of being on a team. I think some of the other things that sort of crossed my mind for the team are resilience. You know, if you get hit with a problem and there's two of you, you are a more resilient force, you can, you can talk this through with the other person. You can share the burden of the problem, the weight of the problem with, with the other person. Obviously, uh, there's efficiencies in having a team because you're not trying to do everything yourself. You can, you know, chain link tasks and, and jobs. So you can do part A, they can do part B, you can do part C, whereas if you both go off and do the task, you're both doing parts A, B, and C. These sorts of, of benefits can't be underestimated. And I think when you're in a team, you also, by virtue of having the two of you together, two plus, right. Obviously we're talking about groups as well. Threesome, <laugh>. No, that's not what I meant. I meant, because we we're using examples of work groups, Speaker 3 00:21:51 Richard. Oh, work groups. Yeah. Right, right, right. Cool, cool, cool, cool. Speaker 1 00:21:55 <laugh>. So what what, sorry, what I was trying to say was that teams are, uh, as, as I said before, they're more efficient and they're more productive and there's more opportunity for growth when you are working together. And one of the examples I I read about in this space, which I thought was really interesting was from a Harvard study and they looked at, um, surgeons, I think they were cardiovascular surgeons and they looked at a huge, huge sample of over a p a very long period. I think it was like 38,000, um, surgeries that they'd performed. So anyway, these were, uh, what do you call the doctors that don't live at the hospital? Consultants. These were con <laugh>. I don't think any doctor lives at the hospital. Some do, some were maybe, yeah, these were consultants. So they traveled around to different hospitals to do their work. Speaker 1 00:22:49 So what they were actually studying was the effect of them being on a team. So being with a unit of people regularly versus the impact of them working with effectively strangers. And what they saw over this period of time, they set a baseline of, um, of success in their work and um, how they measured success would've been the outcome for the patient. And what they saw was against this baseline, the surgeons only improved. So they only had higher success rates over all these years that they looked at them when the surgeons actually worked in a team they were familiar with. So when they went to hospitals and they didn't know the supporting staff, it wasn't their regular hospital, they actually returned to the baseline. They didn't grow at all. Their success rates didn't grow. They Speaker 3 00:23:39 Live lives were on the line Speaker 1 00:23:40 Because of the team. It was, what was really fascinating to me was they got better at what they did when they had a team around them. And I think in the home space, if you wanna grow as a couple, you get better at things. When you have a team you can trust around you. And that's what you were talking to, you know, the psychological safety, one of the key things that we keep reading about for the performance of teams in the work environment is that they need to feel safe. They perform better, right? They have the opportunity to grow, they feel safe, they feel like they can work in different directions and know that they're in a safe space to try new things, to push harder in different spaces. And I think that's true of the team at home. You, you and I certainly over the evolution of our relationship have tried many different things and grown in vastly different ways when we have worked as a team versus when we did not work as a Speaker 2 00:24:36 Team. Yeah. I, I know I've developed more individually as a person since you and I became a, a strong team. Um, cuz you, by doing that I was really able to be more of myself and there was less pressure maybe from outside and socially about what I should do. Um, you know, how I should be, what I should do, what, uh, my life should look like. Where when I felt safe and secure and supported as a team in our relationship, I really started to believe that I I could do anything and we could do everything. And I think that's a really good point. Um, throwing back to what we were saying before about, you know, uh, in the old days, men having, uh, feeling that they had to, um, provide for the family and they had to be the sole breadwinners. And even though that's changed or has changed a lot, I know that some of my mates who were in very successful relationships and um, you know, have very loving, um, marriages, they feel a lot of pressure, especially after the wives, um, stopped working and pa you know, some have gone back and some haven't, um, when they've had kids, especially when they've, you know, got three kids under five for example. Speaker 2 00:25:51 And they're feeling a lot of pressure, which leads perhaps to more drinking, um, to, to higher rates of stress, to poor sleep, to, um, worse health outcomes. Uh, because they feel that there's a lot of pressure on them. Um, and not all of them have that sort of transparency that they, that we have in our relationship around finances and, uh, and the future and setting goals. And what I'd say to what I do say to them, what I'd say to anyone else listening to this podcast, which is, you know, worried about losing their, I guess masculinity or losing their position as the breadwinner in the house, um, or having that, you know, maybe minimized is the fact that being in a relationship where you are a team where, you know, there where there's a lot of, uh, equality, you know, that pressure's taken off you a lot. The the pressure of being the sole person to provide for the family when often you're not because, uh, we, we've already spoken about how women do so much not only around the house, how so many of them are working back full-time now, but having that sort of mental and social pressure off you will mean that you are healthier and you're happier and you're more likely to perform in your job and at home anyway. Speaker 1 00:27:03 Hmm. It's an interesting perspective. I think you and I have switched roles over the years in terms of feeling like provider or not provider. And it is, it is a lot of pressure. So I think it is an important part, whether it's the man or the woman or Speaker 2 00:27:22 The woman Yeah. Who's feeling, I was using a generic example, Speaker 1 00:27:24 You, you were. Um, but yeah, whom, whomever it is is feeling if they're not having those conversations around what, what they can share and what their purpose is together and instead they're left alone with the sense of responsibility that would be, and I think can be very alienating for, for an individual and cause Yeah. Cause a lot of stress. I can see how that would be a big issue and something that really is counted by being as transparent as possible and talking about the purpose of, you know, I think even the pressure of being a bread wimmer winner is reduced significantly when you understand what you both value and perhaps smash some of the misconceptions or illusions that you have with your partner over what they really care about. So coming back to what we were talking about before, which really was, you know, that mentality that is that you being on a team or potentially having these conversations with your partner might cause you to give something up. What do you think, or do you think there's truth to that? Do you think when you are on a team that you do have to sacrifice? Speaker 2 00:28:44 Well, I think if I look at an an any individual pursuit, there's, there's sacrifice. Cause there's a cost to everything. So if you want to be a leader in your field, if you want to be, um, great or even very good, you, you're going to have to give up something. Now, we all can't be the rock. We all can't be Michael Jordan, LeBron James, uh, Christian pka, we all can't be any Speaker 1 00:29:11 Non-sports <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:29:12 No. That's, that's, that's, that's pretty much, uh, that's pretty much all I know <laugh>. Now, you know, we, we can't all be, uh, CEOs of companies. We can't all be surgeons. We can't all be classical musicians. Um, and the ones that are, they put in, they make a lot of soc sacrifice and put in a lot of work. I guess my belief is that it's really about alignment. And again, you, you might be getting sick of the, of the analogies to do with AFL and sport, but it's, you know, it it's what I use. And you know, I think a great example is of this year's, uh, premiership winners Geelong, uh, they have the oldest list in the competition. They're defying the odds. They're in the finals year after year after year. And two of their players, uh, two of the best players in the competition, top 10 players. Speaker 2 00:30:05 And they are on significantly less money than if they, uh, played for another club. The reason they have, uh, decided to stay at Geelong and take less money is because their values are aligned with the club. So they've, so while the layman might look at it, might look at it and say, oh, well you're leaving two to $300,000 on the table each every year. That's a huge sacrifice. They're sitting there going, I play for a winning team. I play for a team that's got a great culture. I live down on the coast so I can go surfing on the weekend and spend time with my family and friends. Uh, so their commitment is aligned so they're not sacrificing, they've got Speaker 1 00:30:51 Alignment isn't, yeah, it's, it shows I think the definition of sacrifice, like you said, you have to give up, you always have to give something when you're working, right? And to work towards goals is it's work. It's, that's what it is. So you have to be giving things up to work towards goals, but if your work is aligned to who you want to be, which is what your values are, right? Your values reflect who you see yourself as and who you want to be in the world. If your work aligns with that, you will never, ever feel richer. You. That is the definition of rich because you are, you are congruent in your soul. That's what your, your sense of self is created around. So there's no way you actually perceive it as sacrifice. It's joyful because you are aligned with yourself and you know how many people can say they're truly aligned with themselves. What they do in day-to-day at home, at work, in any space of their life is exactly who they see themselves as. Speaker 2 00:31:59 Yeah. So you're not actually sacrificing anything more than you would if you are going after an individual pursuit. So like any individual pursuit, as we said, there's a cost if you want to be good or great at it, there's gonna be some sacrifices made. What we are saying is that by putting the team first, you're not sacrificing yourself. You may have other sacrifices in your life, but the point is for you and your partner to align your values and work towards them. And so you are actually getting more than you would if you were doing this as too Speaker 1 00:32:33 Individual together. Well you're living as your truest self, right? Yes. And, and that definitely is getting more out of life and even from the perspective, like from like a, a bit of a meta perspective, one of your values if you are really truly invested in your relationship will be to value that relationship. And by working on that relationship and the team, you are living that value as well. So you are aligning with your value of, of being in a successful relationship or being in a, in a, in a, a full relationship. So Speaker 2 00:33:11 Just like we were talking about, there's a, there's, you know, x many, uh, a f L players who say they wanna win the premiership, but do their actual actions align with that value? How many of us would say, I want to be in a team with my partner, I want to put my family and my kids first. Yet a lot of our actions are misguided because we're not combining our values, combining our goals. Um, and then as a result, combining our efforts towards the team. And as a result, we're actually not putting them first. We're putting our in the individual first, whether we mean to or not. Speaker 1 00:33:46 Well, I don't know that people would necessarily articulate it as team. And that's why we are really discussing this today because we wanna hopefully raise the conversation and get people thinking about the idea of becoming a team and perhaps looking at what team means in a different light and, and being quite clear on the fact that team team can have a really positive meaning in the relationship just like it does in so many other parts of life, and can have an extremely positive impact on life when you partner with your teammate within the relationship. And I think people will be aware that they value their partner and that they value their relationship, but they may not necessarily have considered it in the team light. And I think that's really what we are trying to just raise today is the conversation around what it's like to be in a team in a relationship and what some of the benefits of that are. And and of course address what we think or what we've been been told by others. Are some of the key concerns with trying to think about your relationship as a team or trying to work as a team? Speaker 2 00:35:04 Yeah. Well I think, you know, what would probably also, uh, be interesting for anyone listening is that we weren't a team for a long time when we first started dating, which was 20 years ago. And through the first years of our relationship and the juxtaposition between then and now is, is chalk and cheese. And although we should all experience growth over the years, I know that I am years and years ahead of the person I would've been if we had continued to not be a team. Um, and perhaps we wouldn't even still be together, which for me, in terms of my values would be the worst thing that could possibly happen in my life, is to not have you as my partner in this life. Speaker 1 00:35:50 Me too. <laugh>. That's Speaker 2 00:35:51 Very sweet. Speaker 1 00:35:52 Um, but it's true. We definitely had I think a very good length of time where we were young. You know, we met at 18 and I think we did not know even what that team concept meant. And we did have people, I vividly remember people telling us because we were very morphed at the beginning and we probably were quite team-like at the beg, very, I think Speaker 2 00:36:18 We just spent a lot of time, time together. We spent a lot Speaker 1 00:36:20 Of time Speaker 2 00:36:21 Together as we did. And there was a lot of breakups around that time and most people weren't to together for I guess, you know, 5, 8, 10 years. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:36:30 Uh, but people did say to us, even when we got married, we had people say to us, you know, remember the individual stay, stay independent. Speaker 2 00:36:40 Don't lose yourself. Speaker 1 00:36:41 Don't lose yourself in the marriage. I, Speaker 2 00:36:43 When of course retrospectively you look back and go, well they're just bringing their own stuff into, into it, right. Their own fears, which, which is a natural thing Speaker 1 00:36:50 To do a Absolutely. But I, I do see, you know, eight, nine years ago that point, or maybe it was 10 years ago where we started becoming a team and I think becoming a team takes time. It takes time to prove to each other that you can work as a team. It takes time to earn that trust that's been eroded. It takes time to believe in the team just like it does in any team space. If you're a sports team, work team, would it Speaker 2 00:37:20 Just like it did for the surgeons in your example before Speaker 1 00:37:22 It, it takes time exactly to, to build up the benefits of the team, which are obviously having the sense of psychological safety and the efficiency and the productivity and the resiliency. All of it takes time to get to that point and you build it over time by trying different ways of working as a team. That's what we did. So we, we dipped our toe in, in an area that we were already really, um, we really partnered on and, and shared a really, it was a really strong value for us, has always been health and fitness. And that looked like running for us. And so because we already had that connection in that space and that high level of value for that space, we partnered on doing a marathon together and we set the goal and it took us about a year of training and all of the, um, mini goals and action plans and all the rest the went with that. Speaker 1 00:38:17 And over that period of time we really started to experience what it was like to support each other as a team. And it just, it was just an amazing experience for us. Even to the point like, you know, right down to the literal stuff on our runs, I, I can still see us running back up Vic av and you know, not to out you, but you <laugh> you were struggling and, you know, that was my role was like at the back end of a 30 k training run to be like, you got this where we're so close to home now where, you know, cuz I was a teeny bit fitter than you back then and it did, you know, I did need to support you to get through the training. You weren't as, you weren't as in love with it as I was, but that was part of the team. That role that you played for me was you came even though you didn't necessarily wanna go because Speaker 2 00:39:06 You knew I showed Speaker 1 00:39:07 Up, you showed up, you knew how much it meant to me and you absolutely showed up for me to be able to train for it as well. Well, Speaker 2 00:39:13 I probably wouldn't even been there. I probably would've given up after the first few, like 1520 k runs if, if you, I hadn't had you, uh, there with me. And I think we, we definitely progressed from there. Like for us even to make the decision, for example, to move to Melbourne several years ago, which was like anyone moving into state or overseas was a big decision. Uh, I, I had a big job o job opportunity, but you were doing really well in your counseling career and you had to sacrifice that for the family, which at that time the best thing for the family was you and I, we didn't have a, a little one at that stage was to move to Melbourne and you had to take more of a backseat in terms of being the breadwinner for I guess, you know, I I went to uni a bit longer. Um, and for the first few years of, uh, I guess us in our, um, corporate careers, you were most definitely the bread earner. So, you know, we, we changed roles, but even in that change of roles, we didn't change, I guess the fact that we, uh, how we treated the team apart from the fact we actually grew closer together and started working more as a team. Speaker 1 00:40:24 I think that was a big one for us because I don't know about doing well in my counseling career. It was only in its fledgling space. But you really liked it. I loved it. I loved what I was doing and I think that was very hard because I didn't wanna leave something that I had found that really brought me so much joy. Uh, but I understood from the way you had positioned the opportunity to me that it was important to you to pursue this opportunity for yourself, for your career, for lots of reasons. And so we chose to spend a full day going through the pros and cons and our own values and, and working out which opportunity aligned best to our team values. And that's how we made the decision. And it was really powerful because we actually had to take a day off work to spend this day together to make this Speaker 2 00:41:19 Decision. It was, it was, uh, literally the beginnings of a, a team strategy day or it was a team strategy day. And I'd I'd say to people out there is you, how many of how many people would've done that at work? Uh, uh, uh, offsite day or team strategy day. And we did that day and it, and it very much changed our lives and we've taken so many of those learnings because the next big decision we made together was to follow our dreams and move to the ski fields in Japan. And, you know, that, that changed our lives. Mm-hmm. Speaker 1 00:41:47 <affirmative> it's, it, it's interesting that obviously then we did Japan and then we had to work as a team to come home when we needed to come home after our daughter's, uh, diagnosis and all of those progressions and stages and then obviously starting our own business here and, you know, doing different opportunities and things here. All of that has seen us increase our sense of team and our bond and our connection as we've proven to one another that working as a team does build trust and it, and it does build growth. We've grown so much as a couple and tried so many different things we definitely wouldn't have if we weren't communicating so clearly and being very deliberate in what our purpose and what our values are Speaker 2 00:42:34 And another massive benefit, risk taking, risk taking, doing things that you might not have done if you were just following your own path. Yeah. Because you didn't feel that you could go beyond, you didn't feel you had the support. It's so hard to take risks in this life. Yeah. If you know someone's got your back, if you're working as a team, the amount of risks we've taken and, and I guess the opportunity we've taken and, and realized as a result, I don't think we would've done that. We couldn't have done that in the first 10 years of our relationship because we weren't working as a team while now taking risks is almost part and parcel of what we do. Speaker 1 00:43:09 Okay. So that's our show for today. Rod, what's your big takeout from today? Speaker 2 00:43:14 Uh, my, my big takeout was it's important to put the team first, but you also have to have that individual responsibility and that individual drive to make sure you are bringing your best game for the team. Speaker 1 00:43:28 Okay. And my big takeout for today is that becoming a team actually satisfies a basic human need for safety. So when we feel safe in the world, we're able to function more easily as humans because we're not spending time and energy in that anxious, unsafe space. And actually when we become a team with our partner, we provide that basic human need for higher and better functioning of safety. Speaker 2 00:44:01 You are amazing. You've just spent quality time on your relationship. Speaker 1 00:44:05 Feel like you're on a roll. If you want more living, the team life, relationship, insights and conversations, head over to kim and rod.com where you can find all the show notes as well as tons of other relationship Speaker 2 00:44:14 Goodies. And if you like today's episode, please hit subscribe or let another couple know where they can find us. It'll make them happy and it'll make us really happy. Speaker 1 00:44:23 Until next time, keep on living the team life.