Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You do. We have a soulmate. It's a term people like to use to describe their loved one. But what does it actually mean? And is it even possible to have a soulmate? We're going to dig into the idea of a soulmate today and explore the different sides of the argument with a few surprising outcomes. So sit back and get comfy as we kick off the soulmate debate.
Hey, hey. We're Kim and Roger, and we're here to show couples how to get the best out of their relationship so they can start living their dream life together.
[00:00:31] Speaker B: We're a West Aussie couple who are living the life of our dreams. We don't entertain the word should, we think about the future as a field of possibilities and we let joy be our compass.
[00:00:39] Speaker A: We've taken the simple idea of working as a team and applied it to our marriage and it's been a game changer, allowing us to work out what truly lights us up in life and to go after it together.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: From living in snowy Japan to starting our own house flipping business, we've achieved some big dreams. And most importantly, we feel fulfilled and are having the most fun we've ever had.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: Hear conversations from inspiring couples, thoughts from relationship experts, and tales from our own lives as we help you to gain the wisdom and skills you'll need to turn your relationship into a real team.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: These are relationship conversations for real people, by real people. So sit back, get comfortable, whatever tickles you, pickle, and enjoy living the team life.
You.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: So in 2023, SBS released an episode on Insight discussing whether there is such a thing as a soulmate. And it got us thinking about this often really polarizing debate around whether the one is out there for someone.
And we thought, why not bring it to the podcast and explore it a little more and try and understand where it comes from and why people connect to it.
[00:01:55] Speaker B: Yeah, it's funny because I don't believe that people do have a soulmate, but then at the same time, I believe you're my soulmate.
[00:02:02] Speaker A: Yeah. When you tried to explain the difference to me, I got very lost.
[00:02:07] Speaker B: Yeah, well, probably because it doesn't make sense, and maybe that's a lot of the world, right, where it means something to you, but if you actually rationalize it, maybe it doesn't make that much sense.
[00:02:18] Speaker A: But look, you say I'm your soulmate, but I'm not your only soulmate, which means I'm not a soulmate.
[00:02:24] Speaker B: I definitely did not say that.
Computer says no.
Roger says, no, you're my soulmate.
But is it because, I don't know, I felt that almost since the moment we met that you and I were the ones to be together.
[00:02:47] Speaker A: I think we get into this. So, Reggie, we're going to talk about why you might have felt that. Let's pick this back up.
[00:02:53] Speaker B: So the idea of a soulmate first came about during Plato's time in ancient Greece. Everyone knows old Plato, the famous philosopher, also one of his colleagues. I don't know if we call them back there, or contemporaries. Aristophanus, I'm sorry to all the Greeks out there who wrote a myth about giants roaming the world with four arms and four legs and two heads and how they were split asunder in half by Zeus and they were cursed to roam the world in search of their other half. And this was a bit of, I guess, a play on love and us finding men and women, or whatever it be. Men and men and women, when finding their perfect half. Fast forward to 1822. It was first really put into more.
The actual term soulmate was first used by Samuel Taylor Colleridge in a love letter, which he said, to be happy in a married life, you must have a soulmate. Now, he actually didn't have a very happily married life. I think he was a bit of philanderer and all that sort of thing, but that's beside the point.
[00:04:04] Speaker A: So, basically, historically, the concept of soulmate has been around for a very, very long time. In mythology, they wrote about it to try and explain that two people are.
[00:04:21] Speaker B: Actually one half of each other.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: Oh, man. Thank you.
[00:04:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, how many times in movies do you see it doesn't have to be a romantic relationship, but there'll be a locket that's been cut in half. A lot of romantic comedies, or ye oldie romantic movies, where they actually had a locket and you combined the locket and that that person was meant for that other person and they found each other through fate alone.
[00:04:46] Speaker A: So that's the concept of soulmate in terms of its sort of basic, high level historical genesis, its background, where it comes from. On the other side of the debate, the soulmate debate is not believing in the possibility of only one person matching us completely and going out to find that one person that is out there for us as a soulmate. And when I think about this, it's an interesting one. What springs up for me is the idea of a soulmate being connected to the concepts of destiny and fate, really, because if you believe there is another half of you out there, your soulmate, then you are believing you are destined for a specific person. The idea of soulmates links to destiny and fate and the concept of believing that what will happen in your life is almost a fate accompli. It's written before you even get there, and that is the more traditional version of soulmate. But something I wanted to touch on is the way I think soulmate has actually been interpreted today slightly differently in terms of the cultural interpretation of the word and the way it's used more day to day these days. And the more casual innuendo around the term soulmate, is it actually not necessarily being about going out and seeking the one person or your other half, but accepting that the person you've found is there for your soulmate, which is just a little bit different to going out and to having this idea that you are destined to find this other half.
[00:06:30] Speaker B: Yeah. So I guess there's the question of, do we have a soulmate? But maybe it's more a question of definition.
[00:06:38] Speaker A: Yes. So let's look at what evidence supports the idea of a soulmate. When we think about the concept of finding your perfectly matched other half, in terms of the strictest idea of what evidence could support the concept of a soulmate, it doesn't seem that there really is any way to find that. And so thinking more about the casual definition that I said that we see sort of floating around these days, which is more you find a person and therefore, because you found that person, they are automatically your soulmate. So that's not actually. You haven't actually gone out and tested every other person. So it's kind of more the back end of the idea in terms of that concept of the person you found being your soulmate. It fascinated us why people would call them that, given that they haven't tested everybody else. And what we thought about when we were considering why you would call someone your soulmate, like Roger did at the beginning, is the words that come up most often when someone says, they're my soulmate. And the number one word we've heard mentioned with the term soulmate is safe.
When they've described their soulmate, people will describe, and the couples we interview, we see this with them. It's so beautiful.
Within the first one or two questions, one of them will almost undoubtedly, and often both of them mention how safe they felt from the very get go in their relationship. The first conversation or the first date, they had this sense of safety.
[00:08:11] Speaker B: Yeah. It wasn't just an instant connection in terms of physical attraction. There was something else there that was like, we fit together 100%.
[00:08:20] Speaker A: In fact, I don't think any of them have said that's all. It was like we started with this big physical attraction. It was this sense of knowing this person with safety. And when we look at the word safe, we go back to attachment theory, which attachment theory says that there is a high likelihood of emotional well being and satisfaction in a relationship when we feel safe with someone. So if we think about what safety means to people or why that is so profound, we can think about it through a few different lenses. We can look at it through attachment theory, which tells us that when people feel safe, the likelihood of emotional well being and satisfaction in that relationship is higher. Or we can think about it through the emotional regulation lens. When couples feel safe, they feel more emotionally secure, meaning that they're more regulated in the relationship, which then allows them to deal more easily with stress and challenges. And so the flow on effect occurs in the relationship of it being a more positive relationship and having a better outcome and a higher sense of contentment. So when someone says they feel safe in the relationship and it's my soulmate, I'm wondering whether they are actually saying my soul has been met the way it needed to be met. And that's what the definition of soulmate actually might be.
[00:09:48] Speaker B: Yeah, because your soul is really, I guess the way people use it is the deepest part of you, your essence, and this person, you feel safe enough to give this person your essence, the part of you to hold?
[00:10:05] Speaker A: Yes.
That is just so beautifully put. It is at your core, and it's most often something that you can't articulate, your own essence, your own being, because evolutionarily, what our essence is, is safety. That's all we really need as humans is safety. Like, need in life is safety. And so at our core, we crave environments and humans who will provide and support that safety.
[00:10:35] Speaker B: Yeah. And why is it that we can pick a person out of the room, and science tells us that in under a second, we can find someone attractive out of a room of 100 people, and then to then move to the stage where you have an instant connection and can start to feel safe so quickly in a very unsafe world? One, how could you ever measure it? But two, how could that not be soul mates? And then looking at it from an evolutionary point of view, well, funnily enough, there aren't too many animals out in the animal kingdom that are monogamous. In fact, humans are one of only 5% of animals that are monogamous in the animal kingdom. And this makes sense because obviously, out in the animal kingdom, it's better to go out and have sex with lots of other animals to propagate your genes. But for humans, because our offspring are pretty useless for the first nine to twelve months, unlike a horse or a baby giraffe, which once it drops out, can almost walk within a few hours, humans will take up to a year plus. So it actually makes more sense from an evolutionary standpoint that we do have one person, we're monogamous, that we are with. Now, the question then, okay, is, well, is that person meant for us?
So that's something I don't know if we can ever answer, but what we can do, because my view on this is that you do have a soulmate, but that's not forever, and that's not guaranteed. You actually have to put the work in. And what studies have shown is that there is an animal in the United States called the prairie vol and another animal around the corner called the meadow vol. Now, the prairie vol is monogamous. It finds one partner, it finds its soulmate. They cuddle, they snuggle, they are inseparable, and they mate with them, and that's it for the rest of their life. Proper monogamy. Down the road. Old mate, meadow vol, is just going from town to town and spreading its seed, right? It's completely promiscuous. And these guys are pretty closely related, even though not the exact same animal. So when scientists dug in and said, well, what separates the prairie vol from the meadow vol? What makes this animal monogamous versus this animal, the promiscuous one? And these are pretty much like rat, meerkat rats, or whatever. They found that the prairie vol had high levels of vasopressin and oxytocin. Now, if you've listened to episode 37, how to make the love drugs work for you, you'll also know that humans carry a lot of oxytocin and vasopressin, and these are the bonding chemicals. So what studies are saying is that what makes animals monogamous is these chemicals. What I'm saying is that you can have a soulmate, maybe someone who's meant for you, but that's not a guarantee that they'll be with you forever. You took it from the psychological point of view at the start of the relationship, and we've talked to guests on the show where straight away they felt that safety and they felt that they had a soulmate. But so many of us probably feel that at the start of the relationship, especially a long term relationship, I felt that that was my soulmate. But now I don't anymore. And what we're saying is that, yes, you can have a soulmate because I'm trying to put into practice here. This isn't all just theoretical, Kim.
What I'm saying is you can have a soulmate, but it doesn't end there. You can't be guaranteed a soulmate for life.
[00:14:17] Speaker A: Okay, so this goes to the question of, okay, when people say, I thought they were my soulmate, I thought they.
[00:14:23] Speaker B: Were my soulmate and we're wrong. Soulmates aren't set and forget. You got to nurture them.
[00:14:28] Speaker A: So to stay monogamous, you need to do things that will increase your levels of bonding, which we talked about in the love drug.
[00:14:36] Speaker B: Making the love and making the love drugs work for you. So that was things like going a quest with your partner. That was things like active listening.
[00:14:45] Speaker A: Don't forget to take your kilt and.
[00:14:47] Speaker B: Yeah, go on a quest to find some prairie vols. Because that's how men bond. Men bond by doing things and accomplishing things. Right. Women bond by being heard, by being noticed, by being seen.
[00:14:58] Speaker A: Okay. And by pumping yourself with those chemicals, you will then stay monogamous, which means you will then be with your soulmate. Because really soulmates.
[00:15:09] Speaker B: Yeah. So the soulmate is, you have the one, right? You found the one.
[00:15:14] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: And so how can you have that if you aren't the one? Because I'm divorced three times and I've had multiple partners. I thought my second wife was my soul mate until I met my fourth. From a psychological point of view, you probably do feel that safety with someone.
You do feel like you might have a soulmate, that it was destiny, but that soulmate isn't there forever unless you put the work in.
[00:15:42] Speaker A: Right.
[00:15:43] Speaker B: Okay, have we answered the question?
[00:15:46] Speaker A: What was the question?
[00:15:48] Speaker B: Do we have a soulmate?
[00:15:49] Speaker A: No, we're just exploring the idea. And I think it's super fascinating, the idea of a soulmate because as I said at the top of the show, if you have a true belief in what a soulmate is, which is that the other half of you is out there, it would require you to test the whole world to actually know whether you'd found your soulmate. But if we think about it in more modern terms and the way that you and I seem to see it bandied around with that underlying definition, more related to how you feel about that person that you've actually found, not necessarily testing the whole world to see if they fit you perfectly, but believing that the person you have found is therefore your soulmate, then we can sort of go to the root of what people are actually wanting or looking for. When they say the word soulmate, what is the meaning they're ascribing to that, which I think is really interesting because once you understand what that meaning is, it will help you to work out whether you actually have a soulmate and how important that is to you. So for me, as I've gone through this show and the research with you and thinking about this whole conversation, I don't want to be naysayer in the relationship, but I don't actually believe in soulmates.
[00:17:11] Speaker B: But I'm your soulmate, right?
[00:17:16] Speaker A: I believe in what we just talked about in terms of. I believe people seek safety. And when you find someone safe, your soul can be seen and its essence can be seen. And that is amazing.
That is amazing. And if you want to stay with that person and experience your soul's connections ongoing, you have to put the work in. I believe in those things. I also believe there is more than one person you could feel safe with and have those experiences with.
[00:17:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's right. I think we've spoken to couples who are from mixed families, right? Because they've been in other relationships, and I bet at some stage they thought their first partner was their soulmate. You and I met when we were 18, and we've been together for a very long time, and we've still got a long life ahead of us, hopefully. So, yeah, it's a funny one. And I'll go back to what we talked about before. It's about, why is it that when you can meet someone all of a sudden, sometimes you can just feel so safe with them, like they can protect your essence, like they can hold and protect your essence, your soul.
And the truth is that you meet them and you do that, but then life, actually, life can get in the way. So the situation around you change. You have kids, you have competing demands, especially from when you're younger compared to when you're older and different stages of life. And so what you're really trying to do is continue to show to your partner that I can protect your essence, I can protect your soul. I can hold your soul. You can trust me no matter what, to be your soul's mate.
[00:19:05] Speaker A: And it is the foundation of your relationship.
[00:19:08] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:19:09] Speaker A: Without the safety, there's nothing. Yes, there is nothing. You can do all the work on all the goals and all the dreams and everything that sounds fun and sparkly. You can buy all the things. It doesn't matter. It is literally the foundation of your home, your life, your everything. You cannot put a building straight on soil. You got to build that foundation. And in a relationship that is that safety, whether you want to call it your soulmate, your soul's connection, the essence, whatever, safety must be there. And that's why people put such a big word on it when they experience it, like soulmate, because it is so important.
[00:19:45] Speaker B: Yeah. And we just can't make the assumption that as we go through life that the safety that we felt giving each other our souls will be maintained without putting in work.
[00:19:58] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:19:59] Speaker B: We got to get those love chemical calls flowing. I talked about guys doing quests with women. One of the big things was they want their partner to do what they say they'll do.
That's trust. And that's trust and getting chores done, Roger. It's getting chores done.
Yeah, that's the thing. It's not just not lying or it's not just telling the truth. It's actually, here's something I've said I'm going to do and then actually going through and doing it and doing it again and again and again.
So I don't know if we answered the question today or whether you have, because I was like, there's a soulmate.
[00:20:38] Speaker A: But no, it was a soulmate debate. Today was just us entertaining the idea of why people use this term. Because I think unpacking it is interesting. It's interesting the meaning it has to different people and what could be behind that meaning.
On that note, what did you take out of the episode?
[00:20:55] Speaker B: What was your gold nugget digging down into this soulmate thing? We originally started with, I'm destined to be with this person forever, and I think you broke it down really well, saying, well, no, your soulmate. Your soul is someone, your mate who's going to take care of your soul. You need that safety up front, but you need to continue to have that safety for the remainder of your relationship.
[00:21:20] Speaker A: For me, it was about just staying open to different ideas. I like exploring this stuff. I like thinking about what might be behind it, what it means to different people, understanding that we see the world through different lenses and there isn't just one way to do things, and that's okay. And understanding people's perspectives can help us to empathize with them and grow with them together. So it's just a lovely space. When we have a discussion like this, I feel a little bit more informed when I think about why people might call people their soulmate. It's interesting.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: You're amazing. You've just spent quality time on your relationship.
[00:22:05] Speaker A: Feel like you're on a roll. If you want more living the team life relationship insights and conversations, head over to kimandroj.com, where you can find all the show notes as well as tons of other relationship goodies.
[00:22:15] Speaker B: And if you liked today's episode, please hit subscribe or let another couple know where they can find us. It'll make them happy, and it'll make us really happy.
[00:22:23] Speaker A: Until next time, keep on living the team life.
