Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:02 In the heat of the moment, it's hard to see things from your partner's point of view. For many years, Kim and I would get into fights that ended in hurt and shame with us both thinking, I just wish they cared today. Yeah, we still fight, but we are a team and doing better than ever want an insight on how we went from before to after. Stay tuned with jumping straight into it.
Speaker 2 00:00:24 Hey, we're Kim and Rod and we're here to show couples how to get the best out of their relationship so they can start living their dream life together.
Speaker 1 00:00:31 We're a West Aussie couple who are living the life of our dreams. We don't entertain the word should we think about the future as a field of possibilities and we'll let joy be our compass.
Speaker 2 00:00:39 We've taken the simple idea of working as a team and applied it to our marriage and it's been a game changer, allowing us to work out what truly lights us up in life and to go after it
Speaker 1 00:00:49 Together. From living in snowy Japan to starting our own house ripping business, we've achieved some big dreams and most importantly, we feel fulfilled and are having the most fun we've ever had.
Speaker 2 00:00:57 Hey, conversations from inspiring couples, thoughts from relationship experts entails from our own lives. As we help you to gain the wisdom and skills you'll need to turn your relationship into a real team.
Speaker 1 00:01:07 These are relationship conversations for real people, by real people. So sit back, get comfort from whatever tickles you, pickle, and enjoy living the team life.
Speaker 2 00:01:23 So today we are going to be talking about something a little bit different for us, and that is point of view. We had a conversation around how difficult it can be when you don't understand the other person's point of view and you are not necessarily equipped to try and understand it. I think that's part of it. You don't necessarily have the tools. So today we're actually talking about, I guess, building that toolkit in terms of being able to understand someone else's perspective or point of view, or at least appreciate that they have a different perspective or point of view. You know, start really, really small with these things. And when we build the skills around these areas, they're all help towards building a more constructive and productive relationship.
Speaker 1 00:02:20 Yeah, I think often people talk about communication, communication being the core issue of their relationship. And you and I know that, uh, again, it, it is an issue and as you say, it needs to, you know, how to resolve that and how to manage that needs to be a part of your toolkit. But the, the, the, the core ingredient to a strong relationship definitely is alignment. Um, and I think it's important for people to see that you and I, yes we are aligned, but we do have different point of views on things and especially back in the day, so early, sorry, late naughts, we, we had very different points of view on things.
Speaker 2 00:03:05 I think you hit the nail on the head though, with the alignment because we are aligned today from a higher level, from a values perspective, from a dreams perspective, all of those things that we openly discuss. And we'll go on and talk about this at the back end of the podcast. But because we are aligned in those areas, the point of view differences we may have, firstly we can recognize that their point of view differences and secondly, they don't have the same, um, heat that they used to have in them because we appreciate one another's point of view and we are, most importantly, we have a sense of safety in what the other is actually asking from us. Even if it is something that might be outside of our, our normal lane or our normal perspective because we know that person is on our team and that, and we talk more about that.
Speaker 2 00:03:57 That's really, you know, fundamental to the difference. But what we wanted to do today was actually talk about a situation we used to have come up, which was the point of view differences and the fact that we did not understand or didn't have the skills to even consider that the other person had a different perspective and quite a drastically different perspective to what was being put out there. And we are not saying when we do this, we're gonna go through a couple of scenarios that happened for us to just highlight how very different our point of views were. Uh, but we're not saying these represent all the male point of views or all the female point of views. We're not trying to generalize any of this. We are just saying that point of view, point of views differ. That's normal. And understanding and growing your skillset around having a different point of view from your partner can be very helpful towards your relationship.
Speaker 1 00:04:51 A hundred percent. And what I would also say is just to give everyone a bit of a insight into what we're doing today and how it actually still it impacts us is yesterday we did our usual pre-show run through. And as we were going through the, the issues we bring up, cause we often go away, do our own no notes, you know, cuz these are real conversations and a few nerves were struck. And I think both of us were a little bit taken aback at first, but again, because we have this skillset, because we have this alignment, it it didn't go, it didn't go beyond anymore than a feeling a bit uncomfortable. And we hugged it out at the end and we're really actually proud of each other. And I think that's a great lesson in general that is in a relationship, uh, as in life. It's important to like driving, um, glance in the rear view mirror and, and take a look at where you've been, but really to focus on the present and always be moving forward in the right direction.
Speaker 2 00:05:51 I think I I I absolutely wanna be honest about this. For me it hit a nerve really hard because these were such big issues and such differences in point of views back in the ti in the day. And I just was not equipped. I did not have the skills to appreciate that they, we had a different perspective. And so even with all the work we've done, which just shows how much you have to continue to work on these things, when you explained your point of view on one of the specific scenarios which we'll get to, I just was in disbelief, <laugh> even today, more than a decade later, <laugh>, that that could have been your point of view. And I, I reacted really strongly. I was, I was dumbfounded, I really couldn't even speak, but within a minute I said, because you said to me what you don't wanna talk about this?
Speaker 2 00:06:42 And I said, you know what? I'm just saying what I'm doing here. I'm so jarred by the misunderstanding that occurred for my perspective versus your perspective that it's shutting me down. I i, instead of seeing that they were a difference, which is the whole point of this show, it shut me down. And so I took a breath and I said, absolutely this is what we should be talking about. Cuz that's the whole point of it, isn't it? Differences in a point of view can be really, really jarring and you need to upskill yourself on how to manage those situations and how to create a really great foundation like we have. So when the differences are there, like when it was raised yesterday, I was able to catch myself cuz I knew you did not mean that with malice. That you, you were not trying to dismiss my perspective in any way. You were just telling it from your side and I was able to catch myself, take a breath and realize what had actually happened. Cuz I feel safe and I know you've got my back. So that was an interesting little
Speaker 1 00:07:41 Yes. <laugh> moment. <laugh> it was, it was, um, it was touch and go there for a minute. So look, we're gonna take you back to the late naughty. Um, this is when Rihanna was just starting out with, um, umbrella. This is when everyone thought that Kevin Rudd might make the great Prime Minister and you know, Toby McGuire was still Spider-Man. So just to reframe. Yeah, I know. That's, that's a long time ago. We're old that, was
Speaker 2 00:08:04 That with Lindsay Lohan or if I got the wrong girl?
Speaker 1 00:08:06 Yeah, you, you're comp completely right. I think Lindsay Longhand Lohan was who have I just long gone? Oh no.
Speaker 2 00:08:10 Anyway,
Speaker 1 00:08:11 <laugh>. Okay, <laugh>. Moving on. Moving on. Keanu Reeves. <laugh>. He
Speaker 2 00:08:15 Was
Speaker 1 00:08:16 Fantastic. I love ke still res Yeah. All. So, okay, let's get back. I think we needed that
Speaker 2 00:08:21 Moment. Fan club. We'll move on. Alright, so I'm gonna paint the picture first for the scenario. Um, that came to mind for me. And the situation was, uh, as Roger said, uh, over a decade ago, we were living in our first apartment together. Um, the first home we'd owned together and I was working, Roger was working. We worked pretty long hours and I was unhappy in my job. I knew that I wasn't connected in my soul, which might sound really airy fairy to some people, but actually is about aligning your values really at its core, my values weren't aligned to my work. The work was fine, I was fine at it. It was technically on paper. I guess I was doing everything you should be doing to progress your career. And that made it even more confounding to me because I couldn't work out why what my family had ingrained in me, which was, you know, follow a certain path and, and success is by grow, you know, growing your skills in the business world and, and climbing the ladder and all the rest of it.
Speaker 2 00:09:27 Why that didn't feel like success to me, and it really didn't. I was really, really struggling with that. And I felt really detached from my work. I started to feel really disconnected from myself. So I was in a pretty vulnerable place and I would come home each day because I wasn't living my best life. I would come home each day from work, exhausted, flustered, upset, vulnerable. And I really, really wanted my partner to be there for me. And I didn't recognize in myself how upset I was. I didn't recognize how fragile my emotional state was. And I would at the end of a long day, not just for me, but also for you, I would launch into whatever was upsetting me from work <laugh> or life. And you would try and fix me.
Speaker 1 00:10:30 Yeah. I I I I would try and fix you. Um, I I hundred percent acknowledge that and it was because I was becoming quite overwhelmed with why to me you seemed so upset all the time and not cry, cry, upset, like just stressed, like not happy. And, and again, all the time, um, we, you know, I think it's always important <laugh> it's always important not to use words like always. And, you know, um, you're, you're always doing this, um, you do this all the time. Uh, but yeah, I, that's how I felt at the time. I was like, well, you know, she comes home from work, she's stressed, like doesn't she see how I stressed? I am, that's how stressed I am. Like imagine if I came home from work and told you every day how stressful, uh, stressed I was and, and through through that all over you. Um, you know, so I, I was, you know, obviously only thinking myself. And the other thing, um, was I didn't really like engaging in conflict at the time.
Speaker 2 00:11:29 Mm-hmm. You really didn't <laugh> you would do anything to avoid a discussion that might erupt in any way, even if the eruption was only at myself, if I was just being upset, you know, for whatever reason it wasn't to do with, which
Speaker 1 00:11:43 It often was. Like
Speaker 2 00:11:44 You were just, I really was, I was, especially in that scenario, I was upset about, I was upset about the choices I was making and the road I was going down. And you would try and avoid that by, um, placating me. You would offer me comments like, uh, just don't stress about it babe.
Speaker 1 00:12:03 Don't stress babe <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:12:04 Don't stress babe. And then try to redirect me in another, in another direction. Which, you know, it's kind of a parental
Speaker 1 00:12:10 Move. Stop thinking about the future. Stop, you know, stop, um, worrying about things that are out of your control, which, you know, might seem like, like the first one wasn't, don't stress. That's absolutely useless. The, the second one was like, Hey, you know, don't think about things outside of your control. That's not helpful because it, in no way does it validate or anything, it's just, I really, I'm just trying to shut you down. Even if I was doing it in a nice way, I was still trying to shut you down.
Speaker 2 00:12:35 But I guess on the flip side, you were, you were trying to shut me down. And we can see that now. But on the flip side, I wasn't trying to engage you. I was actually trying to vent at you and just, just use you to somehow feel better. Somehow feel better. And I think it, that was the difference in, uh, both of us. We couldn't understand one another because what I, what I really needed out of you was this safety. I wasn't getting from work or my, my future or whatever I was thinking about. I didn't feel safe. I didn't feel ground, I didn't feel connected. But instead of trying to establish an engaging conversation and explain to you, you know, what I really need out of you right now, what would be really helpful for me, even trying to have that conversation when we weren't in the moment. I just came at you with this pain, this raw pain and frustration, and as a result, you shut, shut down and tried to shut me down pretty much.
Speaker 1 00:13:38 It was like, uh, an unstoppable force meets an immovable object, <laugh>, and there were fireworks as a result. And there was a lot of hurt in there. And I think that's what we saw yesterday when we brought it up again there, there was a bit of hurt because in the end you we're not always trying to heal the specific issues of our past. We are trying to heal the relationship and move forward. And that that's what we do. Now. We know how to manage these situations now, how to talk to each other. But back then we didn't. And so it was so easy to be hurt because you just thought the other person didn't care. You thought, I didn't care. I thought you cared too much.
Speaker 2 00:14:18 And I think that's what, so part of this point of view conversation that's so important is understanding that when we don't get open and honest about what's happening for ourselves and share what's happening when our partner doesn't respond in a way that we understand because they have a different point of view, when we, when we have these misunderstandings around our different perspectives, we start to make broader assumptions around the relationship. Yeah. And that's where it becomes really dangerous. So instead of sitting back and having, having more open and honest conversations, recognizing that this was a specific disagreement or a specific misunderstanding around point of view or perspective, we would start to say things like, well, I would start to say things like, he just doesn't get me. That's it. He doesn't get me, he doesn't care and he doesn't get me. And they are much more fatalistic. They're like, much more, the implications are much higher when you start making assumptions about the whole relationship.
Speaker 1 00:15:21 And, and it came out as well. Um, you know, you, you often would br almost bring to the party like, this is a deal breaker. And of course, that what what that do is, is that I got in this circle of like, okay, then okay, we calmed down from that. It's not a deal breaker, but the next time you came and you are upset, I was like, oh God, if this escalates quickly, yes, we're gonna, we're, it could be another deal breaker. And so again, I just tried to go, let, let's shut this down. Like pull the, where's the switch? Break glass,
Speaker 2 00:15:51 Boom. Yeah. So the cycle, I mean, that's really what we end up is in these patterns and these cycles that just are like a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more you stay in them, the worse they make everything seem. So, um, yeah, it was a very difficult situation. And I think we, we, like I said, from the get-go, we just didn't have the skills and really we hadn't, most importantly, we hadn't worked on our relationship so that we could have those challenging conversations in a safe way and in a productive way, and have differences of opinions and understand that each other can look at things from a different perspective, can come at things from a different perspective. Um, yeah. So that's that, that's that first scenario, I guess, and how it impacted me, impacted you, the assumptions that were made as a result, um, on the relationship.
Speaker 1 00:16:46 Should we move to scenario too? Yeah. Yeah. And then, then I thinks, let's try get through all the tough stuff and then we'll come up with some greater stuff. Yeah. Kids tips, advice and how we got it. Got through it in the end. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:16:58 Okay. Far away. Scenario two, Roger.
Speaker 1 00:17:00 All right. So point of view is, um, again, you know, it might have been after work, it might have been on the weekend. And, um, you are starting to talk about the future. And sometimes that manifested in talking about the places we'd live. Like, I wanna live closer to the coast. Uh, maybe I want when, maybe when we buy new cars or we go on other holidays or something like that now. Um, or even it could manifest it in a way which was like, oh, well Roger, when are you gonna go for your next promotion? Your, your, um, yearly reviews coming up? You should be pushing, pushing, pushing. Um, now I'll, I'll straight away say is that I, again, I wasn't really keen on ever talking about the future. Um, I was scared of the future because that meant I had to, to take accountability of my life to really direct it.
Speaker 1 00:17:52 You know, I <laugh>, I, I, you know, I I I liked being at university the years previously where you only had to worry about exams and, um, yourself and having enough money from working at the, uh, as a pizza chef to, to be able to get on the booth. Um, so, you know, for me what the feelings I had from that. Um, you know, so the underlying cause was that I, I was afraid of the future, but the feelings I had from that was I felt like I was in a vice grip and that I was under a lot of pressure. And, you know, sometimes you can feel like this, you know, later on, not just back then, except I know, you know, you're on my team. But back then I always thought, oh, I'm, you know, because she's thinking about the future, it means she's not happy with now. And because she's, and because she wants me to push harder and do better at work, it means that I'm not good enough for her even at, at the thing that I do. And again, not to generalize, but men generally need men like acknowledgement for the things they do. And I'm someone who likes that, like, you know, you know, I like a bit of a pat on the background
Speaker 2 00:18:58 Words of affirmation.
Speaker 1 00:18:59 Words of affirmation. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, no, I'm pretty sure the technical term is like to be told we do things well, <laugh>. And, um, I think, you know, for me, I just felt like I was in a vice grip. Like I was under so much pressure because at home I wasn't good enough. And at work then I wasn't good enough and I didn't know where to go. It was suffocating. And of course that would then lead me to shut you down, close out, leave the house. Maybe if you were talking about it, it's not good enough. Why there's, I, you know, I'd get really angry and then I'd feel like I'd feel really bad. I'd feel shame, um, about how I reacted. And I'd also feel shame about who I was.
Speaker 2 00:19:38 I think also you can already hear it in the retelling of the story that you escalated what you were seeing to meaning more about me and the way I engaged in the relationship and what I thought of you, rather than the specific scenario. Oh, yeah. Did you know what I mean? A hundred percent. Right. And like, when we were talking about the same way I did, you escalated into, you know, she's, she, she, she's material I think is what you used to say to me, which like killed you. You just,
Speaker 1 00:20:08 You just care about the material things. Yeah. Which is so not you.
Speaker 2 00:20:11 It's, it really killed me because, um, that wasn't the purpose of those conversations or the intent or my point of view at all. Uh, from my perspective, even listening to you say it now, like when you use the word vice grip, I just, oh, I remember you saying that to me. And I think of myself as a loving person, as a very empathic person. That's something I really take dearly in, in life. And I treat dearly. I try to nurture those qualities of myself because, because they're so important to me. And when your partner says, you've got me an advice grip, that's the, that's a very unloving image. It's a very harsh,
Speaker 1 00:20:56 I I used to say things like, get your foot off my throat.
Speaker 2 00:20:59 Yes. That was a big one. As a,
Speaker 1 00:21:01 I even feel it's
Speaker 2 00:21:03 Hard, isn't it? Say it is hard. You know, it's hard. And that's what difference, a point of view is. It is a really, a really difficult thing. And you know, as you were going through that scenario, I was thinking to myself, and here I, you know, you go back into the patterns and I think, um, what we're, what people will be hearing today is that even like today, we're always working on our relationship. This stuff is still being worked on. Um,
Speaker 1 00:21:28 And we work hard.
Speaker 2 00:21:29 Yeah. And I could hear myself as you were saying those things, defending myself and say, oh no, you've got it wrong. This is what I thought. But that was <laugh>. We've moved a little bit past that. But it is that, um, defensiveness, I think that is part of the issue with point of view is coming in with this, with this sense of defensiveness, right? I've gotta protect me. I've gotta show him who I really am. When you have a relationship that is built on trust and safety and security, you don't feel like you have to show that person. No, that's not me. Because, you know, they know who you are. You know, they know you're a good person. And that stuff, it, it doesn't even come up in the discussion. So now when we have differences of point of views, which we have all the time, we're really different people. We, we are able to recognize and diffuse much more quickly because that underpinning that strength of having that safety and security in the relationship is, is always there.
Speaker 1 00:22:39 Yeah. And we, we, you know, we worked really hard on that over the last 21 years. Our 21 year anniversary is coming up on the 6th of April, is that right? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:22:49 Yep. It's
Speaker 1 00:22:50 Okay. <laugh>. Yeah. Still, uh, you know, so I think, you know, we look back in time and it can be quite hurtful and we're, we're almost like reliving it and repl replaying it. But what I'm actually, what it does also is when I can step back from, as I'm so proud of us, I'm so proud of where we've come from. Um, I'm so grateful that you and I have been able to, you know, leave the baggage behind Marie Condo. Um, some of the, the hurt that we, we've, we felt in the past and really, you know, forge ahead, as I said, glancing in the rear review mirror to make sure we take on our lessons learned, but really making sure that we're, you know, side by side going into the, into the future.
Speaker 2 00:23:35 Yeah. I like that Marie Kondo idea. It's kind of funny cuz you know, she says say thank you, um, for, for how, how it served you and move on. And I thought, oh, didn service. But all of these things have serviced us. We have grown so much from those situations. The ways that we worked out we didn't wanna live were the impetus for us to work out how we did wanna live. We knew we didn't wanna fight like that. We knew we didn't wanna think or have the other person think those things about us. So all of the trials and tribulations of relationships can serve you and did, do serve us, and did serve us. And I am grateful for those experiences because look at where we are today. And I think also it highlights something that we are really, again, passionate about sharing with people and modeling to people as well.
Speaker 2 00:24:29 Relationships require work all the time. They are never, ever just on autopilot. If they're on autopilot, you're not doing it right. Relationships need work. They need hard work and they absolutely will be work. You cannot avoid the working relationships. You just need to think about how many stages of life we go through and the external pressures and stresses that they will bring into our lives. It's, it's crazy to think that that won't increase the workload on the relationship. And when you start thinking about the relationship as a separate entity that you need to nurture, you start to appreciate, oh, the workload has just gone up for that entity. I'm going to need to nurture that more carefully. And that's one of the ways that you, that you move forward. But that's, um,
Speaker 1 00:25:17 Yeah, so the, the, the couple bubble is what you're talking about there, having the, having the relationship at its own entity. And you would've heard of us talk about the couple bubble before. Um, this is really about the co the, the couple, the relationship having its own identity, you know, and both people putting the relationship first and prioritizing each other. So both people doing that, and Kim and I have really done that the last 10 years. We've really said like, Hey, our relationship comes first. That's how we're gonna get the best out of each other. You know, in life and in your relationships, you're, you're really either, um, you're receding, you're stagnating or you're growing. Um, and you know, in most, in most areas of life, you really want to be growing. And it's the same as a couple. So Kim and I have grown a lot over the last 21 years, and generally you can grow side by side, um, but at some point in time, you're either going to grow apart if you're not aligned. Um, and you'd be pretty lucky if you were growing together without actually taking meaningful steps and proactive steps to do it. So why take the chance and the guessing out of it, put the relationship first, put your partner first and actually go, Hey, I want to grow with you, I want to grow together.
Speaker 2 00:26:33 Absolutely. And I think bringing that back to this conversation around different perspectives and difficult moments that we have and, and repetitive themes in relationships or repetitive, um, a repetitive argument or a sense that we are not aligned, all of that can be drastically reduced and supported by working on the couple bubble. So I guess moving to the how do we, how do we help these situations? Because so many people have said to us, you know, I have a difference of opinion than my wife. She thinks this, I think that when we talk about living the team life, it's one of the most common things is she doesn't understand or he doesn't understand where I'm coming from. So that's
Speaker 1 00:27:14 Communication's, the issues,
Speaker 2 00:27:15 Communication issue point of view is, it was a big one that we really wanted to demonstrate. We've had those differences of point of views and those misunderstandings, we've seen them escalade into assumptions around the bigger relationship. And if you want to start shifting away from a difference of perspective and a difference of point of view and start being aligned with your partner so that those, those differences don't erode and damage the relationship, the first place to go is build the foundation. That's what the couple bubble is. That's what working as a team is. It is building the foundation of your relationship. It's a very simple equation. You need to make the relationship feel safe and secure.
Speaker 1 00:27:54 Yeah. So, so when you feel safe, we've talked about this before, you are more likely to be yourself and get the best out of yourself and then get the best out of each other. Uh, you know, another way to feel unsafe and to, you know, not have a couple bubble is to do what we used to do in the past and say things like always and um, and put deal breakers in, I think a, a great, um, takeout for people who are going, oh, well, you know, communication's the issue. It's the way we fight is okay. Then make sure when you do fight, make sure that each of you know that when you fight, it's rift and repair. It's not rift and tear. You know, where it's not rift, rift, uh, rift and break. You know, each fight you have isn't a deal breaker. You know that you, at the end of the fight, you are gonna get through it.
Speaker 2 00:28:41 Those knowings, that understanding between one another, that it's rift and repair, not rift and tear is only comes when you start to build that team, right? Yes. Because otherwise you don't have the understanding, you haven't had those deeper conversations. So you can work on communication tools, how to, how to fight better or have more, um, constructive arguments. And that will help. But if you don't at your core know what the other person wants out of life, you know how the other person is engaging life, what their dreams and hopes are, what their fears are, um, you don't have an agreement with this person that you guys are focused on. The couple that if you have an argument, it is rift and repair. Or if you don't have those conversations about the deeper stuff about the foundation of the marriage or the partnership, you can work all year long, all year long, all day long on better fighting skills or better communication skills because you don't have that core agreement and understanding together. I is still going to, what's gonna happen is you're gonna have the same fight over and over again. It's still going to occur. It's going to, you're going to come back to it over and over again. Especially in really stressful situations where you lose the capacity to argue nicely, which, which ha always happens. It happens to us even today. But again, the foundation is so strong for us, even when we lose our bananas at each other, it's rift and repair. Yes, we've had a rift. Let's get back on
Speaker 1 00:30:11 Track because we understand that cuz rift from rift and repair comes growth, you're, you're challenging each other. You want a strong partner who challenges you. But a, a great example would be, I had a staff member at one of my old jobs and in inside her team, she was a hotel manager inside her team. She, her team loved her. They'd walk over hot coals for her because she had built such a strong relationship and she said, I'm always gonna have your back. And as a result, they always had her. We're gonna put the team first, now come to some people outside her team in the greater organization. They had some real challenges because she hadn't gone away and built the relationship and made them know that she had their back. And so while some of the relationships and the relationship with the people in her team were fantastic, and then when it was the middle of the, the ski season, we are getting 40 check-ins in a night and she's flying off the handle at them because, you know, stuff's getting real and we gotta get going. They don't sit there and go, oh, this person's going, my manager's going crazy at me, or My job sucks. They're going, oh man, I don't wanna, I wanna be the best that I can, um, to help her out in this stressful situation. While of course other people outside of that team where they hadn't built that, I guess, you know, team bubble, um, didn't feel like that way at all and felt like, how dare you talk to me like that you are trying to work against me. And I'd say it's the same thing as the
Speaker 2 00:31:35 A hundred percent. I think this is such a great example because I think the workplace is where you can really see this easily come to light. The relationship, the importance of building the foundation of a good relationship. And I know we're talking about romantic relationships, but the office is such a great example because if you think of the people you had good relationships with in the office and what you would do for them and what you would excuse from them. So if they're having a crappy moment and they come at you hard and fast, you don't think, oh, this person's an idiot. They're so off the handle. You think, oh, this person's in distress, how can I help them? I care about this person. And I think that translates like directly across to the relationship how you perceive their engagement, how you care about them, how you help them. That is all drastically improved when you've built that relationship foundation
Speaker 1 00:32:27 And those internal challenges and rifs you have, they then make sure that as a team you grow better, you end up working better together. You learn when to step in and when to step back. And you also, um, because you're working towards your common purpose, you actually, you're willing to put it in the additional effort. You're willing to stay a couple hours after work. Yeah, absolutely. You know, you know, instead of going, nah, no, um, five o'clock I'm out.
Speaker 2 00:32:49 Just like in a relationship, you're willing to put the bit extra in. So, so I guess just bringing it back to working on that relationship foundation or building the team as we like to say, um, some of the ways you can start to do that in your relationship, one of the really great ways is t teach that person that you put them first when you are out and about with others. Teach that person that they're a priority for you. So if you are out in a social engagement, nothing feels better than when your partner grabs a drink for you. When they've gone to the bar for themselves. I I thought about you. Or if they're sharing news with someone else and you're like, oh, I knew that news first because they came to me first because I was a priority for them, because the relationship is a priority for them. And they've shared that with me first. This isn't the first time I'm hearing that my partner's thinking of going for a job that they haven't even spoken to me about. So you are building that trust. You guys are in the inner circle together, right?
Speaker 1 00:33:45 E even a hundred percent. And even in your own family. Um, so you're out of family of the relationship. So parents, parents in-laws, um, you know, brother sister. Yeah. Oh, what what do you mean? I I have to, you know, put my, my partner above my family. It's like, yeah, yes you do. Yes, yes. And, and you know, it's a, it is almost a bit of a thought experiment. Imagine going to your partner and saying, you are not the priority for me. I've got your, I've got my, my mom or my sister, and then you. That's the
Speaker 2 00:34:14 Priority. Well, it kills relationships. I mean, we have no one people who have said, I cannot manage being in that relationship because another family member comes ahead of me. How can you have the most intimate trust with someone? The the safest, most secure circle with this person? If there's someone else who's closer to them than
Speaker 1 00:34:35 You. If, if you are not number one, yeah. Someone else is. And then how can you feel safe and secure and be your best? There's always gonna be that little niggle in the background that, hey, um, this person has my back until,
Speaker 2 00:34:48 Yeah, this is gonna feel uncomfortable for some people, I'm pretty confident because they're thinking, but I love my mom and I love my dad and they're so good to me and I do anything for them and they do anything for me. And we, Roger and I are huge advocates of saying, that's all great, but if you want the absolute best relationship with your partner, they need to be the number one person. They need to come before all of the family. And we'll do a podcast on that because that is a much bigger issue. But that is where we stand on that issue. That's not negotiable. So, so moving along, so yeah, putting the partner first, letting them know, um, that they are a priority for you. When you share information, they're a priority for you when you're out and about that you've always got their back, you know, if someone has a crack at them or a bit of a joke that doesn't, doesn't land well when you're out and about, have their back, you know, have a little joke back at at the other person, you know, make sure that they know, you know, I got my team member here, they've, they've got my back, I, I'm safe here.
Speaker 2 00:35:43 And then in, in some of the more, um, the more deep conversations at home, start dreaming together, prioritize the relationship's, health, talk about the relationship as that separate entity. What are we doing for our relationship this week, this month? What have we got planned to look after the health? What have we got planned to discuss the future of the relationship and what the relationship needs right now in this stage of life? Because in each stage of life, what the relationship needs is actually gonna look really different. You know, when you have children, it looks different when you get married, it looks different when you're just cruising through the, the phase of five to 10 year old children, it looks say cruising. So,
Speaker 1 00:36:19 So what you're saying, yeah, sorry, <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:36:21 Compared to zero to
Speaker 1 00:36:22 Five. So, so what you're saying is that because the relationship has its own identity, um, and it is its own entity, that means it needs to be fostered in order to grow. Absolutely. And to get the best out of it. So it needs to be, it needs to be put first because otherwise you're gonna let, if you are letting other factors and other things get in, getting in the way of fostering and getting the best out of your relationship, your relationship will suffer, which means you and your partner will suffer.
Speaker 2 00:36:51 Absolutely. I'm saying number one priority. Build that foundation. Build the house on a strong foundation, if you've got that foundation, even if you get a crack in the wall, something goes wrong, the house isn't gonna fall over, right? So just build the house on a strong foundation. And I guess when, if, if people are sort of thinking, you know, but what about in that actual moment when things go wrong and everything flares up? Um, there are a few tools that we've got that are kind of helpful for these sorts of specific situations. They can take some of the heat out of the moment, some of the inflammation out of it. But again, first and foremost, prioritize the relationship, create the bubble, build the team. Then look, if you get to those actual moments and you want some hints on those really quickly, I'll run through those First, it's about checking in with yourself, giving yourself some love, soothing yourself, grounding yourself.
Speaker 2 00:37:42 Rogers talked about this before. You know the deep breathing so that you can try and access a more rational part of your brain so that you're not stuck in fight or flight or freeze. Um, those sorts of things are really important. Um, before you launch into a conversation with your partner, you need to check in on how their day is tracking. Because you might think you're in a bad way. They may be in an even worse way and you don't wanna jump in on them when their stress cup is already full and they're already at
Speaker 1 00:38:07 Capacity. No, you've gotta create the space,
Speaker 2 00:38:09 Create the space, and with that space, ask them if this is a good time to talk about stuff and have the respect that if they ask you to wait an hour or two, maybe even till tomorrow morning, that that's, that, that you respect that situ. Yes. You're gonna have to regulate yourself. You're gonna have to learn how to regulate yourself and you're gonna have to trust that that person's gonna deliver on coming back to that conversation. And we do this quite often now
Speaker 1 00:38:35 And, and practice makes perfect with this stuff, Absolut. And so the more and so practice makes perfect because it would come a habit and then the more the other person sees you doing it, the more they will expect it to be done. And so the more they're likely to be open to it. Yeah. It's not out of the blue going, why, you know, you know, I think before sometimes you used to go, I'm gonna talk about this with you tomorrow. And I was like, what? Oh, I'm gonna have to stress all night about
Speaker 2 00:39:01 This. I felt the exact same way. Or even you'd say to me, babe, I have, I haven't got the bandwidth for that right now. Can I come back to you in two hours? And I think, oh, he's never coming back to me. Yeah, yeah. And now I'm like, oh, okay, great. Because
Speaker 1 00:39:13 I, cuz I've built up the history of coming back to you shortly after when I've calmed down. When you've calmed down. I've had space and time to think about it. Yeah. And I can come to you at my best effort.
Speaker 2 00:39:23 Yeah, absolutely. Um, and just a really simple one. Find a comfortable place to have the conversation. This is such an obvious one when you think about it, but a lot of people will start conversing while they're uncomfortable. They've maybe still dressed from work or whatever it is, and they, they don't enjoy having the conversation from a physicality perspective. So find a space that's really comfortable. Say, you know, gimme a second, I'm gonna put my slippers on before I come and have this. You're trying to soothe your system.
Speaker 1 00:39:51 Sit down, like sit down. Standing, standing up. Having this conversations is really, is really hard because that's when we're actually, our bodies are in a, we are ready to set. You're
Speaker 2 00:39:59 Getting ready to move. Right?
Speaker 1 00:40:00 You're ready to move. Yeah. Um, and the other one I think as well is when you do sit down and talk to them, face each other.
Speaker 2 00:40:07 Yeah. It's, we always sit to talk for serious conversations and we always go outside. I think nature really helps to settle loss. Um, and give us a little bigger perspective, a little bigger perspective. What sort of
Speaker 1 00:40:20 English? A little bit more perspective,
Speaker 2 00:40:21 A little bit more. No, a bigger perspective. Greater perspective. A bigger perspective. Cuz the world is bigger than us. <laugh>. Alright. Um, and, and we go front or back of the house. We've got two spots and it really does make a difference. It, the second you step over that threat house threshold outside, it changes the way we feel. We take in the fresh air and before we've even started, we're trying to regulate in these moments. That's really what it comes down to. Things have fired us up. Things have us set us. We're trying to regulate our systems. Do do these things. Take these actions and you will help yourself regulate. That will help you access the rational part of the brain. It will help you make better decisions in the conversation. It'll help you be more productive with your partner. Um, and also lastly, address the conversation as a mutual space. It is not a one-sided dumping ground. It is a mutual space. If you want a conversation with your partner, expect them to engage you, expect them to participate, expect them to have their own ideas and perspectives. That's a mutual space. A dumping ground is, is a very one-sided thing. And that's not what you want in relationships. Always. It's a
Speaker 1 00:41:29 Two-way
Speaker 2 00:41:29 Radio. It's a two-way radio caveat. I love you. You know, if there's an, an emergency, this is my one big caveat. If there's an emergency and you are really struggling, something serious has happened, it's really, really throwing you off. Course. You can ask your partner for what you need. You can say, you know what, I just need you to listen. I got, I got five minutes of stuff, I gotta get out. I've just gotta do it. I'm in a really, really bad situation. This has happened, whatever it is. But you need to ask your partner. You need to show them that respect in that moment. So yeah, there's just some hints for having, um, having I guess more productive conversations with your partner. But again, all of these things are in the mun in the moment communication styles. The most important thing you can do is work on your con your relationship consistently. The in the moment stuff will help you in the moment, but nothing will help you as much as building up the sense of safety and security in your
Speaker 1 00:42:27 Relationship. And you put in the hard work, you'll get it back in spades. Yep. So babe, that's our episode for today. What was your one takeout?
Speaker 2 00:42:39 Uh, I think for me, the biggest thing that, um, that we've talked about today, and I just spoke about it so it feels like I'm repeating myself now, but is the working on the foundation of the relationship is the most important thing. It's, there's nothing that's going to help. We, it's really what living the team life is about. Lots of people out there working, um, towards helping people in relationships. So therapists and, um, couples, counselors and those sorts of people talk a lot about communication style. And that definitely has a place in the tool belt. But we're talking about, and our belief is, if you change the approach to your relationship, if you go that layer deeper and change the approach to your relationship and treat this relationship as a precious entity, as its own identity to be loved, nurtured, cared for, monitored, then you will have a far greater chance of having a very high quality and successful relationship.
Speaker 1 00:43:50 Yeah. So for me, um, and I'll sort of, uh, carry on from what you are saying is that the silver lining guys is that there's a way forward. And I think, you know, you know, you know, while I was listening to Umbrella, sitting in my car, worried about entering the house because I know that we'd have another fight. Uh, Ella
Speaker 2 00:44:13 Ella clearly listening to my CD
Speaker 1 00:44:15 <laugh> on repeat, one of my, um, you know, my mixed CDs, uh, you know, I I you sometimes say, is, is this ever gonna get better? Is is there a way out? And it did. And I can hand on heart say today because of all the hard work we've put in, because we put our relationship first, that, um, I'm more in love with you today than I've ever been, and I'm happier than I've ever been.
Speaker 2 00:44:37 Aw, stop. But keep going. <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:44:45 You are amazing. You've just spent quality time on your relationship.
Speaker 2 00:44:49 Feel like you're on a roll. If you want more living, the team life, relationship, insights and conversations, head over to kim and rod.com where you can find all the show notes as well as tons of other relationship
Speaker 1 00:44:59 Goodies. And if you like today's episode, please hit subscribe or let another couple know where they can find us. It'll make them happy and it'll make us really happy.
Speaker 2 00:45:07 Until next time, keep on living the team life.
