Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Picture this. It was a time when Nellie's hotten here was topping the charts. It coupled. Justin Timberlake and Britney Spears were making headlines with their rocky relationship and the coolest phones flipped open and snapped shut. It's against this backdrop of hipster jeans and blonde tips that our love story unfolded. Today, we're stepping back in time as we answer questions about our own journey together. Join us as we revisit the highs and the lows, navigating the challenges and changes, and reflect on the lessons we've learned from over two decades together.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: Hey, we're Kim and Rog and we're here to show couples how to get the best out of their relationship so they can start living their dream life together.
[00:00:46] Speaker A: We're a West Aussie couple who are living the life of our dreams. We don't entertain the word should. We think about the future as a field of possibilities and we let joy be our compassionate.
[00:00:54] Speaker B: We've taken the simple idea of working as a team and applied it to our marriage, and it's been a game changer, allowing us to work out what truly lights us up in life and to go after it together.
[00:01:03] Speaker A: From living in snowy Japan to starting our own house stripping business, we've achieved some big dreams and most importantly, we feel fulfilled in having the most fun we've ever had.
[00:01:12] Speaker B: Pick conversations from inspiring couples, thoughts from relationship experts, and tales from our own lives as we help you to gain the wisdom and skills you'll need to turn your relationship into a real team.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: These are relationship conversations for real people, by real people. So sit back, get comfy in whatever tickles you pickle, and enjoy living the team life.
[00:01:38] Speaker B: Today on the podcast, we are going to be talking about our own relationship. And we do this every now and then. Well, actually we do it probably most podcasts in between talking about general relationships. We obviously share a lot about ourselves on the podcast, but today we thought we'd focus on ours because we do get a few questions about our relationship that are about specifically the fact that we have been together for 22 years. And I think for a lot of people, maybe because we've been together our whole adult life, that comes as a bit of a surprise and a bit of a novelty. And there are specific themes that people seem to want to know about and we thought, why not share it with our audience? Why not run through some questions that are related to these themes, these areas of our relationship that seem to interest people just purely because we've been together so long. So. So we're going to talk about for example, our long history and how long history impacts a relationship. We talk about change and growth. That's another theme that comes up. And we're going to talk about fun. That is another theme that comes up. How do you know? I think people think about fun from a how do you keep it all good 22 years on? And fun is definitely an element. So what we've actually done is written down some questions. We have not pre prepared these. So, so we are going to be answering these on the fly, but we think that's the best way to do something. So let's dig into it. Let's talk about long history in a 22 year relationship and what comes with having been together for such a long time and having 22 years of experiences, 22 years of memories, 22 years of ups and downs together.
What comes with that? What does that look like? And the first question I'm going to throw over to you, rog, is how after 22 years, do you let go of past things that have hurt you?
[00:03:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, that was a great intro, sweetie. And I think one of the other important things to note is it's not just the 22 years. It's the fact that those 22 years started when we were teenagers. It started when we were 18. So the growth and development from being kids, because you are kids when you're 18, to adults now.
And to your point, to your question, how do you let go of things in the past that have hurt you? We've talked before about baggage, you bringing baggage into your relationship from past relationships. And you can definitely bring in baggage from your current relationship into your current relationship when you've been in a long term relationship.
And I think Kim and I are similar in some ways where, and definitely me, I believe that it's important to look forward, you know, be mindful of the present, but look forward to the future and only glance in your rear view mirror, you know, you can't. Living in the past isn't a great way to go about living your life.
But, you know, when you're together since you're 18 and you do stupid, young, foolish things, Kim and I have hurt each other a lot in the past. We've done a lot of bad things through action and inaction, and we've had to work through them with very few skills and tools, and we've had to come together and work on them with way more skills and tools, especially the last ten years. So I think the fact that Kim and I have such a strong vision of the future now helps us figure out the past. Look, if you bring up a few things from our past, which we don't do, but if you did bring them up, it would. We're not like saying, like, they wouldn't hurt, but that's the point. We don't dredge up the past because we realize that we're a powerful force moving forward. And we also realize that we were kids or we were in our twenties, or we were young, dumb and stupid.
And now we've got the tools and we've got the resources.
I don't know. I just feel that it's a lot easier to let go of past things when you're able to put things into context, when you're able to understand we didn't have the tools and resources, and also that we do have a shared vision of the future. It's a lot easier to let go of things that used to really hurt us and. And drag us down and used to maybe get, for years, got brought up again, again and again.
[00:06:32] Speaker B: I like that.
It's.
Yeah, I think that that's very true. We don't sit a lot in the past these days, but I like the forgiveness piece around, also understanding and having that perspective now that you can see that you didn't have the skills and tools back then. So why would you cast a judgment today on the past with the skills and tools you have now? That would seem grossly unfair. So just some grace and forgiveness in that space and some tolerance for myself, I actually listened to this question. How do you let go of past things that hurt you? And something else sort of came up for me.
I would say it's the words let go that kind of struck me because I don't think, like you said, rog, if we brought up some of the stuff that's happened in our 22 years that was hurtful, it would still hurt.
But I don't think that the goal of letting go of stuff is a great goal. I think as humans, you can't erase your memory. You can't erase the experience you've had.
I think if we think of letting go as in letting go of the hurt feelings, being with us in the present, so not allowing ourselves to move forward and experience the present as it is, because we're stuck in the feelings from a past behavior, that's what you want to let go of. Whatever happened, happened. You'll never, ever forget that. You'll never let go of the.
Whatever it is, the huge fight you had that broke your heart. Whatever it is, it's always going to have happened and existed. It's the sensation you brought the hurt that that brought about, that you really want to be letting go of. And I think we've done a lot of work individually and together on understanding that peace around, not wanting to stay stuck in past feelings that are attached to an action that happened in an era that no longer exists, because that would mean today was suffering for yesterday's actions again.
And that doesn't seem like a very productive way to use life.
[00:08:57] Speaker A: No.
A big part of it is that we've earned back the right to move forward. So when I've done something in the past or I've had habits or things that I've done again in the past and it's come to a climax or we realize this is not gonna work for us as a couple going forward. Why? Worked really hard on them. And same goes with you. We worked really hard on them. And then over years and years, we showed that, well, we can grow, we can change, we can improve.
And then you have a track record of doing the right thing, as opposed to a track record of doing the wrong thing or a negative thing.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: All right, do you want to go first on question two or do you want me to.
[00:09:47] Speaker A: I'll set. Okay. What are some of the quirks or habits that you love about each other that have persisted over the years?
This is PG rated, Kim.
There's kids in the back of the car listening.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: Stop it. See, you just did the habit that I love so much about you that has been part of our relationship for 22 years. And you have a habit of making light of situations, whether the dark as dark or bright as bright can be. It is a full habit for you. You just. You can't break it. It doesn't matter what's going on. Whatever comes out, you will make light in some way. And I don't take that offensively most of the time.
[00:10:37] Speaker A: The gag always comes number one, doesn't it?
[00:10:40] Speaker B: It does. We love it. It is. Humor is such a great release of tension. There's a lot of research around the power of humor and it has certainly been my favorite habit of yours over the last 22 years. It's just a joy to be around. Yeah. What about you? What are some of the quirks or habits that you love about me that.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: Have persisted over the years that I love about you? Okay.
No, no. I think so. I used to have a nickname for Kim and it was the velvet sledgehammer. And this was off. This is after a famous footballer called Matthew Lloyd, who was a goal kicker for Essendon. And he was a bit of a pretty boy, you know, he was very, like, you know, straighty 180, but he could also be a bit of a thug on the field. So, you know, and that was Kim. So, so Kim was this sort of, you know, in some ways, not prissy, but she was very, you know, she's beautiful, young, but she could hit you like a sledgehammer.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: And not physically.
[00:11:49] Speaker A: Not physically, but just like. No. Emotionally, no. Verbally, no. And I remember so many times, you know, some people in social situations, if someone says the wrong thing or something that's not quite right or says something that's untrue or, you know, and it's social, right? So everyone just sort of nods and walks past it. Kim's like, nah, we're gonna have this out, or, nah, that's not good enough. And she used to do this to my friends where they might laugh about something that was a bit, you know, I guess, cruel or not, you know, not even that bad. And everyone would sort of laugh and move on and kill and go, nah, not good enough.
And, you know, that's not good enough. And she does that with me, or she pulls me up all the time on when I'm. I guess when I'm not maybe even living to my. The values I believe in is that you're, you know, it's a bit like I'm saying it to be funny or I'm saying it to get a rise, or I'm saying it because I'm being flippant. And it's something I love about her because it's, you know, in a world where social constructs and so many things get walked past and, you know, and. And what happens is, I guess, in some areas, where it be casual racism or where it be sexism or things like that, you know, they just get walked past. And Kim, not even things like, as important as that would just hold me to account, hold people to account. And as a result, I think it's just a beautiful way of going about things. So I just. Yeah, that's something I've always loved about you. Sometimes it's hard as a partner to be constantly held to account, but I know I'm a better man for it. And I I definitely prefer it when you hold other people to account, but I think that's something that I've always loved about you, because it's just, it's such a good quality to have in a person. And I think sometimes the things we love about our partners is something. Maybe it's something that we wish we had ourselves. So, you you wish you were funny. That was.
And. And. And I wish I was more values driven and.
Yeah, that's a good one.
[00:14:03] Speaker B: You were making me teary to the end.
[00:14:05] Speaker A: Until the end. Yeah. Yeah. Again, the gag always wins out there.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: The gag always wins. No, that was very sweet. Okay. The second theme that comes up when we talk about having had a very long relationship is the theme of change and growth. And I think this one's probably the meatiest theme because obviously, a lot of people in relationships struggle with change. Struggle with growth. I certainly saw this under a magnifying glass when I did my masters of counselling, because that degree is notorious for causing a lot of personal growth. It's a very, very full on degree. And a lot of relationships struggled. The partners struggled as their partner unpacked some heavy stuff and grew and rebuilt. And it is an interesting theme. And obviously, we have naturally grown and changed a lot over the 22 years, and this has had its ups and downs, but ultimately, we're fully aware that change and growth is a key part of what has made us so happy. There's no way on earth we'd want to be the people we used to be. And that's not to shame them. It's just that we're so proud of how far we've grown and how much more we get to enjoy in the world as a result of that growth and enjoy in our relationship as a result of that growth. So with that, Rogie, let's ask our first question for change and growth as a theme in a long relationship. And that is what have been some of the biggest surprises or unexpected turns in our relationship over the 22 years.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: So I think, finally, I'll talk about the fact that we work so well in business.
[00:15:52] Speaker B: Oh, that was mine.
[00:15:54] Speaker A: Yeah. That's what happens when you go first.
You can't use that one. So the fact that, you know, I think especially when we're younger, we used to, we are very different people.
And look, in some ways, we come from very similar backgrounds. We both, you know, grew up around here. So even though, you know, Kim grew up down south, but we still grew up in West Australia in a beautiful country and went to good schools and, you know, have similar friends and that sort of thing. But we are two very different people. We work very differently in terms of the way we go about. We have very different skill sets, and we have very different approach to things. And also, not only that, like, Kim is in business, how she is in life. While for me, I was always very different at home to how I was in business. I separated the two.
[00:16:46] Speaker B: And I like to think I'm slightly.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: Softer at home with velvet sledgehammer coming back again.
But I think that the fact that when we started our house flipping business and we very, even though this, you know, we were still working to a groove of how to work together, we actually did it very quickly. We very.
We found our strengths. We saw what worked. We backed each other, which is huge.
We, you know, we really believed in each other. So we were able to, I guess, not just delegate, but, you know, in business, it's really important to understand who owns certain processes and metrics and goals. So you can just focus on what you need to look at. And then the team as a whole understands that everything's being taken care of. And so that's what we did really, really well from the get go. And I think, you know, we got some very good results very, very quickly, and we still work together today in our business. And, of course, we work together on this podcast. So I think that that was the thing that surprised me where if you'd asked me that maybe even ten years ago, let alone 1520 years ago, I would have gone, oh, no way. I think I probably have said before I'd never work with Kim when I was younger, and now I couldn't think of working with anyone else. And I feel very lucky to have someone as awesome and talented as you on my team.
[00:18:14] Speaker B: No gag to undo that one.
[00:18:16] Speaker A: Pardon?
[00:18:17] Speaker B: No gag to undo that one.
Okay.
Thank you. Appreciate that.
What have been some of the biggest surprises or unexpected turns in our relationship? For me, I can't walk past, obviously becoming carers, without a doubt the biggest surprise in our life.
There is nothing for me that has happened in the last 40 years of my life that has taken me by surprise as much as that, probably because I was very ignorant beforehand around even autism or carer life, certainly ignorant around non speaking autism and what that looked like.
So that is the biggest surprise in our relationship because the impact on our relationship is monumental.
Our roles have shifted our forever. Roles have shifted in our life, our future. And I think in terms of the unexpected turn or what's evolved out of that, to me, the biggest surprise, first and foremost, was obviously becoming carers, but it's actually how much tighter we are as a couple as a result of that.
Yeah, it's just blown my mind that we have evolved so much and leant in so hard on the relationship in a time of. Of extreme change and of, I can't lie, a lot of challenge, a lot of challenge in our life.
A lot of unpredictable. What's that? Unpredictability, non predictability, unpredictable futures. A lot of un surety. A lot of un surety around the future and things like that. And so, yeah, that's been the biggest surprise. And I think, really, the. The part of it that probably shocked me the most was, you know, if someone had said that your life was going to take a massive turn at some point that you won't know is coming, and it won't look like anything you could possibly imagine, and, Roggen, you will become stronger in that process.
I don't know if I. Yeah, I don't know if I necessarily would have believed that that would have been possible given the, you know, the stress and the challenge that you can experience when life takes an unexpected turn. So.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: Yeah, well, no one expects it to happen to them, and that it does, but the fact that the reason we've been able to get through it and get through it so well was because we had each other.
[00:21:08] Speaker B: Yeah. 100% agree with that.
[00:21:10] Speaker A: Okay, so how have you managed to maintain a sense of stability and continuity in your relationship amidst these major life changes?
[00:21:20] Speaker B: Well, that follows right on from that question.
A sense of stability is definitely you and I with our rituals. That, for me, is the most stable making thing, because it's consistency, it's predictability, it's familiarity, it's warmth, safety, everything all in one. So, our ritual out on the veranda, we bang on about it, but it is brilliant. It is life saving. Every morning we have quality time together. We wake up slowly in the sense that we allow our bodies to have breakfast and chill and relax for a minute before we hit the pace of the day. And that, for me, has kept us stable, sane, and provided a sense of continuity. What about you?
[00:22:02] Speaker A: We just talk about everything all the time, just talking about it. And, you know, it can cause fights, but we get. The fact is, because we keep talking, we get through it, you know, and I used to be someone who, like a lot of guys, who didn't want to talk about stuff because didn't have the toolkit, but also was afraid of talking about the future because then I'd have to face reality. And now we just talk about everything all the time. Things aren't left unsaid.
[00:22:28] Speaker B: So you more than me? Sometimes, yeah.
[00:22:30] Speaker A: There's no resentment build up when you talk about everything? When everything's on the table, no resentment builds up because everything's on the table that can be addressed. So I think that, for me, that, for me, is the reason why we are stable, because we might have micro instability, but macro stability.
[00:22:50] Speaker B: That's a nice perspective. I like that.
[00:22:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Macro versus macro. I like that. Yeah.
[00:22:54] Speaker A: All right, so the last theme that we're going to look at is fun. So fun is one of the, I guess, key pillars of our relationship. But also, no matter what your definition of fun is, it is also critical to the survival of any relationship. And Kim and I love each other's company. And it's also important because we've been together for 22 years. Like, we've watched the movie before we're on the reruns. So it's important to keep, it's important to keep. To keep that sense of fun in the relationship. So we'll just close off with a final question is, what are some of your favorite fun activities or traditions that we've developed together over the years? Years.
[00:23:38] Speaker B: The favourite one I have that at the moment is our New Year's Eve tradition. So every New Year's Eve. So we can't go out for New Year's Eve yet. Our little girl just isn't in a place where that would be possible in any way, shape or form. And so, you know, like all these things we talk about, we've pivoted. And the pivot for us is how do we make it a great New Year's Eve with very low expectations in terms of what's possible. And something we love, obviously, is food from Japan, especially the wagyu steak. And so we go and get wagyu steak from a really good butcher, and we get a bowler bottle of wine or champagne, and we do that steak to perfection, salted to within an inch of its life on the smoky barbecue. And it is just mint. We look forward to it every year, our wagyu state tradition. And, yeah, it's just a really fun activity that is something special, something neat for us. And it's our tradition.
[00:24:47] Speaker A: It's a new year's for us, done our way.
[00:24:49] Speaker B: Our way. And even if we're halfway through and we have to get up, it's just not. It just works. It just works for us. What about you, Roger?
[00:24:56] Speaker A: For me, it's more about, you know, you say, what are some of our favorite fun activities? For me, it's just, we know, doing something outdoors. So it doesn't matter if it's walking, kayaking, tennis, golf, or, I guess it's indoors, but we're going indoor rock climbing next week, bush hiking. You know, we'd love to go skiing again. Bike riding. Like, we just love doing stuff outdoors. And we always, every week it's like, what are we doing outdoors this week? It's something that we both really love, we both really bond over, and it actually doesn't matter what it is. And of course, you get all these benefits which, you know, all the, you know, humans, all that are talking about being outside in the sun, you know, the world around you in nature, moving exercise, you get all those benefits which the scientists are saying are great now, but which really was self explanatory or self evident. And I think there's something that we do and we do together. And so it always just keeps our bonding chemicals going. It keeps us fun, happy, and healthy, and, yes, it's great.
[00:26:02] Speaker B: All right, Raji, is there a gold nugget out of today's episode that you've garnered?
[00:26:08] Speaker A: Maybe not a gold nugget, but more the fact that, you know, how many times are we to say this? Kim and I have been together since we were 18. We've been together for 22, nearly 23 years. And things were really tough for a third of that after the first few years, up to about midway through our relationship, things were so tough. And yet we're one where, you know, our friends tell us we're one of the strongest couples, we're the best team because we've put in the work for the last ten years. We just had to learn the skills.
We had to be committed. And.
[00:26:42] Speaker B: Yeah, well, mine was that you love that I'm firm but soft, because sometimes I wonder if I'm a bit too firm. So it's nice to know that the thing that you're not so sure about, I know it's a. It's a. It's a bit of a superpower when I need to get stuff done, but I'm not so sure that you see it that way. It's nice to know that you do. It's very sweet.
[00:27:06] Speaker A: Of course I do.
You're amazing. You've just spent quality time on your relationship.
[00:27:14] Speaker B: Feel like you're on a roll. If you want more living the team life, relationship insight and conversations, head over to kimandroj.com, where you can find all the show notes as well as tons of other relationship goodies.
[00:27:25] Speaker A: And if you like today's episode, please hit subscribe or let another couple know where they can find us. It'll make them happy, and it'll make us really happy.
[00:27:33] Speaker B: Until next time, keep on living the team life.
