Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You ever find yourself puzzled or even a little annoyed when your partner seems to be seeking extra attention? Maybe it's a flavory of questions when you walk through the door, or those random memes that pop up in your messages. Or maybe they seem to be fishing for a compliment. Well, it might be more than it first seems. These are actually bids of connection, subtle ways our partners reach out for our affection and interaction. In today's our episode, we delve into understanding these bids and how responding to them can profoundly impact our relationship's depth and strength.
[00:00:35] Speaker B: Hey, we're Kim and Roger, and we're here to show couples how to get the best out of their relationship so they can start living their dream life together.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: We're a West Aussie couple who are living the life of our dreams. We don't entertain the word should, we think about the future as a field of possibilities and we let joy be our compass.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: We've taken the simple idea of working as a team and applied it to our marriage, and it's been a game changer, allowing us to work out what truly lights us up in life and to go after it together.
[00:01:00] Speaker A: From living in snowy Japan to starting our own house ripping business, we've achieved some big dreams and most importantly, we feel fulfilled and are having the most fun we've ever had.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: Hear conversations from inspiring couples, thoughts from relationship experts, and tales from our own lives as we help you to gain the wisdom and skills you'll need to turn your relationship into a real team.
[00:01:18] Speaker A: These are relationship conversations for real people, by real people. So sit back, get comfortable, whatever tickles you pickle, and enjoy living the team life.
So I brought this one to the table, today's episode because I think this is something that Kim does quite a lot. And I think my response has not always been great.
And now I've definitely gotten better about it. And I think doing some research and reading on the topic, I realized why I'd gotten better at it. So I thought we'd share it with you today. And today we're talking about part of our communication toolkit and that's bids of connection, which is a Dr. John Gottman theory. So of course, you've heard Kim and I talk about communication being a skill and relationships being skills that can be learned. Communication is something people struggle with. In fact, it's often the most cited issue in a relationship.
And the truth is, like all skills, communication can be learned. You can get better at the more you do it and the more you do it and the more you practice it and the better you get at it. When really stressful situations arise, which they always seem to do in relationships, is then it becomes more natural, it becomes more automatic to use that skill in a positive way than to maybe go to some old habits and fall into those old fighting styles and those old fighting rhythms that you can have with your partner.
[00:02:57] Speaker B: Yeah, just jumping on that point, Roger. I think that's such an important one.
We need to practice what we're learning in life, in any skill building situation. And one of the reasons, as you say, at the end, your third point there, is that we can try something new when we're not stressed. We can't really do things we haven't practiced when we are stressed, because our resources are already maxed out. And so our brain will go to that more autonomic part, that part that just happens in the background, and it will do what it knows best, what it's learnt best. So once we learn to practice the way we want to live, once we start to practice the way we want to live, and we get better and better at it, it does become more of an automatic response. And when you do get to those stressful situations, the beauty is that's the response the brain looks for. It looks for what it knows best. So we really do need to practice things so that we can find them in the more stressful times when we really need them.
[00:04:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I 100% agree with that. And hopefully that gives a lot of couples and a lot of people hope that just because you don't know how to do something doesn't mean that you can't learn it and then master it, or at least get really good at it. And especially if you're doing it with your partner, it's something you can practice with them as well.
[00:04:19] Speaker B: I mean, even you've said at the beginning, this is something you didn't used to do well, and it is a skill that you've built really, really well. And I think it's changed our relationship quite a lot, you building that skill. If I had said to you maybe ten years ago, I feel like this is missing, it would have been hard for you to hear that, perhaps because you were more nervous then that you weren't able to develop the same skills as I had, I think we had in the first decade of our relationship, an assumption that you were either innately, one way or another. But what we have definitely learned and proven over the last decade, and this is really what all the relationship researchers suggest as well, through their own research findings, is it's just skills and anybody can learn them if you want to put the work in. They are skills that are learnable by anyone. Simple as that.
[00:05:14] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. And one of the first steps is actually the awareness of what the situation or what the problem or what the sign your partner giving you is. So you can then implement the skill. So that's what we're going to really talk about today, and then we're going to give you some actual ways you can implement this skill. But we're talking about bids of connection today. So the bit of connection itself is something that Dr. John Gottman and his wife, Dr. Julie Gottman, in the love lab, noticed around a lot of couples. And it was again, like the four horsemen of the apocalypse. And the five to one golden rule was one of those key things where Gottman's research suggested that the way partners responded to a bit of connection is often a strong predictor of the success and longevity of relationship, because he believed that responding to bids of connection in a positive way built trust and intimacy, and as a result, people would have more satisfying relationships as a whole.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: So tell us what a bid is then, Roger. What does it look like?
[00:06:21] Speaker A: A bid is any attempt from one partner to another for attention, affirmation, affection, or any other positive connection. Bids can be verbal, like asking a question or making a comment, or they can be nonverbal, like a smile and a touch.
[00:06:38] Speaker B: So, thinking about this recent examples in our lives, this morning you came into the kitchen and you gave me a hug from behind, which was very sweet. That would have been a bit of connection.
[00:06:50] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: And the other one that comes to mind really recently was we spoke this morning about you actually raised with me the idea of a hike after school, holidays finished, and organizing a hike. And that's another bit of connection, right?
[00:07:08] Speaker A: 100%. And as I said, off the top of the show, you're someone who often makes bids of connection, and you'll often make verbal bids of connection because you, well, you've got so many ideas coming into your head, and you're like, roger, what about this? Or Roger, do you think about this? Know, my friend said this, or what do you think of my guess?
[00:07:31] Speaker B: I like for our audience to hear this in a more simple way. Is it fair, do you think, to say it's sharing?
[00:07:39] Speaker A: Yeah, it is sharing a lot of the time.
I guess it's reaching out. So, actually, do you know what we should do? We should go through maybe half a dozen actual examples of what bids are. That'll give you guys listening a better understanding of what a bid is. Again, bids can vary greatly. Inform. They might be a bid for a conversation, for emotional support, a bit of humor, which is something Kim and I often do in our relationship, even when it's not funny, or even a bid for help with something.
[00:08:10] Speaker B: I love that. I just think about how many times a day we bid for connection. Even now, when I reflect on the stressful times, even in an argument, you can have a bit of connection, right? Yeah, especially in an argument.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: Well, often they can be, because some person might be just be reaching out as a bit of connection. The other person is like, there's a problem, so they don't realize that person wants attention or they're fishing for a compliment or they're doing something like that.
[00:08:41] Speaker B: But even in the heat of an argument, when one, like, for example, you will often bring humor into the argument. That's a bit of connection.
[00:08:50] Speaker A: Yeah. It's more like it could be an olive branch or sometimes it's a life raft or, please help me.
Save yourself.
We're going down.
Okay.
All right. So I'll go through a few, and then Kim will, and then we'll move on to some of the best ways to approach those bits of connection and maybe some pitfalls and ways not to approach those. So one, which often happens, maybe at the start of the day or the end of the day, is sharing stories about the day. Is it sharing a story about what you're going to get up to to that day? Or is it coming home after a hard day at work and reaching out to your partner and telling them the story about what happened, or your partner telling you something because they haven't seen you all day that happened to them in their day and going, hey, this really bummed me out today. Or, oh, you wouldn't believe what happened.
Whatever the story is, regardless of what type of story is, we're actually making a bit of connection here, because in the end, we want to be heard, we want to be understood, we want to be valued, and we want to be noticed and supported.
[00:10:07] Speaker B: Do you know, this one's a really big one from our past. I think when I think back to when we were younger and you never wanted to share about your workday, you used to actually say that to me. I would ask how your workday was, and you'd say, I don't want to talk about work.
[00:10:23] Speaker A: Yeah. I was someone who very much compartmentalized, especially early in my career. I was like, work was work when I got home. Why would I ever want to talk about work? And that's obviously very different as I moved on in my career. But I guess the point you're making was that, for me, I thought I was bringing baggage home, and that by you asking, I was like, why is she asking? Why would she want me to talk about work? But really what you're doing is, I haven't seen you all day.
I'm making a bid of connection. I want to connect, and here's a bid. And so that's where the terminology comes from. I want to connect with you. So I'm reaching out for a moment of connection with you. And of course, I didn't realize. So I'm sitting there thinking something like, why would I want to talk about that? Or why are you trying to drudge up the day? Or is there something you want to know about what I do? Like, yes, I worked hard today. All these maybe negative feelings or thoughts, as opposed to the fact that you just wanted to connect with me.
[00:11:17] Speaker B: Isn't that interesting when we just bring that different lens in, how much we can see there's so much going on behind the scenes for both of us and the false assumptions that we're making because back then, we didn't have the understanding, really, or the language even around, like, I couldn't have said to you, I'm just making a bit of connection here, or trying to connect with you that probably wasn't as available to me, and you weren't able to say to me, it feels like when you say these things to me, A, B, and C, and we try and find a path forward. Once you understand this idea of someone making a bid for connection and the importance for the response, it all seems to make a lot more sense.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: 100%. That's the awareness of the situation we're talking about. So once you've got an awareness that this is a bid, and you can actually stop and think, well, actually, no, I don't want to talk about my day at work, but maybe I should be and want to give my partner some time and give them a connect. And that's pretty special to have someone in your life who, when they haven't seen you, wants to connect with you.
[00:12:23] Speaker B: That's an interesting one. I know I'm going on about this point, but that's really interesting because I do think the coming home from work is probably an issue for a lot more people than we realize. If you didn't want to talk about your day because you'd had a tough day, you could always respond with your own bid of connection. That looked different couldn't you?
[00:12:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, hey, my day was a bit of a mind boom. Tell me about your day. I really want to hear about it. That'll take my mind off the stress I'm under at work.
[00:12:52] Speaker B: Yeah, beautiful.
[00:12:53] Speaker A: So whatever a mind boom is, I was trying not to use swears on the podcast.
[00:12:58] Speaker B: A little boom boom.
[00:12:59] Speaker A: A little boom boom. Oh, that's even worse. Okay.
Another one is grasping for attention. And this could be like, I find this in the car, or just something random will come up. Oh, did you know this band was blah, blah, blah? Or I had this CD, or, I hate the color of that fence across the road, or something like that. And it'll just be sort of like, there's no real reason or rhyme or even that much interest in the topic, but it's a, hey, I want to talk. I want to connect. I want your input at this moment in time.
[00:13:32] Speaker B: This is definitely one that I throw out there a lot.
[00:13:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:36] Speaker B: I am an outward processor that I expect you to process with me.
[00:13:41] Speaker A: Yeah. And this really should be like, in all honesty, this is a gimme to the person who is getting the response. Like, yeah, you might want to talk about your day, but yet maybe talk about the funny looking dog across the road or why they painted their fence that way or how much. I can't believe it's 650 for a coffee now.
So it's those little things where they can be inane and mundane, but they're actually a real good opportunity for you to connect with your partner.
[00:14:11] Speaker B: Love that.
[00:14:11] Speaker A: All right. And another one is sharing accomplishments. I think Kim and I definitely are at a stage now where we're always, like, celebrate the wins. But when you get home and you do something, or if we're together, brag. Like, if someone says, and maybe they're fishing for a compliment, look at what I did.
I smashed out this email. Or, I did such a good job at work today, or, babe, did you see the tree house I built? The little one?
If you respond to that and, oh, my God, amazing, well done. Or, wow, that must have been so much hard work. Or I really saw all the work you put in. That's responding to positively to a bit of connection. If you just sit there and go, yeah, so what? Oh, gee, you don't think I work hard all day? And things like that can be more of a negative response when really the person is just trying to connect with you.
[00:15:00] Speaker B: It's such an interesting one because I think it's quite a gendered one.
My experience is that men will often want to share an accomplishment with their partner.
[00:15:11] Speaker A: That's all we got, babe. That's all we got.
[00:15:15] Speaker B: This is a very common one, and it can be a little tricky, because women feel like, well, I'm doing so much as you said, I'm doing so much myself, I don't share everything with you. But it's again, coming back to remembering the lens of the bid of connection. Yes, you're both approaching it differently, but it's important for the person who's made the bid that you do connect with them in that moment. Whether you feel like you want to do it yourself and make a bid of connection on everything you do or not is up to you. But that partner that's come forward and said, like you did, oh, look, I've trimmed out the cubby house. You wanted me to come and have a look and see that you had trimmed the cubby house and tell you what a great job you'd done.
[00:15:57] Speaker A: You'd actually spent that time where I was actually putting trim on our daughter's cubby house we're building over the summer. You'd spent that time doing work, doing washing, doing all this stuff. And it's not like in my head, I'm going, look at all the work I'm doing. I'm the best guy in the world. Actually, that's exactly what I was thinking. But you're right, because when we're talking about invisible work and division of labor in the household, there is a bit of. I guess it's not a meme, but it is a bit of a funny thing where a guy might do the dishes once or hang the washing out once, and he walks around like the emperor, swaggering about. Not so funny, not so funny. But the point is, if you are sharing an accomplishment, maybe just try zone into that moment in time and be in the moment, and then really appreciate that that person actually just wants response. And that's right, women, you do a heap of work way more than us guys. And guys do need a bit of a pat on the back every now and then.
[00:17:00] Speaker B: It is a lovely connection point. When I came out and looked at the cubby, you had a huge grin on your face, and it was a lovely moment. I smiled at you, and we connected as partners and as parents. Do you know what mean? It was that lovely connection around being parents as well, and being proud of what we do for our girls. So it was a lovely moment of connection, really.
[00:17:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And the funny thing is, Gottman says you should use this with your children as well, not just your partner. So if your kid comes up to you and you know, daddy, look at the drawing I've done, or there's someone at school who stole my lunch or did that, and the other, they might always not want you to fix it, or they're really just trying to connect with you. And I think that's the main thing we're trying to get across here, is so many things. It's not the actual subject matter that matters in the moment, even if the subject is important to talk about. It's that initial bid of connection.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: Yes. All right, a few more examples for people sending a post or a link. This is a great one. And I know a lot of couples do this, and there's a few memes out there sort of making fun about how husbands and wives just sit on different ends of the couch, sending each other.
[00:18:08] Speaker A: Sending each other memes. About sending each other memes.
[00:18:10] Speaker B: And then send each other the same meme because they're so connected.
But it is one of those moments when you send someone a post or a link. It says, I saw you and I saw this. Sorry. And I thought of you, and it's nice to be thought of. That is a moment for connection. Oh, that's so sweet. They thought of me. They get me. They see what makes me laugh. They see what's important to me or something that I would find interesting.
And that does connect with someone. And when you return that as well, again, you've got that opportunity. And we'll talk about responses in a minute to reciprocate that bit of connection.
It's a lovely moment where you spark, potentially a little conversation or a little to and fro in the relationship.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: I love what you said there. It's like it'll often be about something that's happened in the last few days, or this is so something you would do. So a lot of the time it's like sharing, like, oh, this is so me. And it's like you both have a laugh, so it's a bit of humor. But it's like, I notice this about you.
I want you to know that I notice about you. And I find this funny. Even though it's one of your weird things, I find it really funny.
[00:19:19] Speaker B: Or just about the person, or just about the person.
[00:19:21] Speaker A: Doesn't have to be one of their weird things. We're all weird.
[00:19:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Amen. Okay. Another one aiming for a hug or some sort of physical affection. So obviously I mentioned that hug that you came in this morning and gave me from behind. And it was an attempt for you to have physical contact, you wanted a cuddle back. You wanted to be touched and be cuddled. And you'd gotten up very early for our girl this morning. 445 and you wanted a cuddle. You wanted to connect as I woke up, because you very kindly left me sleeping. And it is a lovely way for someone to say, I want to feel connected to you physically. So that's an important bit of connection bid for physical affection, really. And the last example would be talking about a common interest. And this is really when I said before sending a post or link, this is the in real life version of this. So when you might, for example, Roger and I both ski. So if someone comes along that's done something crazy in the ski world, or there's a new Warren Miller film out or something that's relevant to the ski world, we will share it with each other. And that is most certainly a bit of connection because it interests both of us. We both enjoy the conversation, we find it stimulating. And it also says to that person, I found this interesting and thought that you would find it interesting. I'm thinking about you when I'm even getting interested myself. I could have just enjoyed it on my own, but I really want you to have the enjoyment out of it as well.
[00:20:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's really important to have common interests with your partner. It doesn't mean all your interests have to be the same. We do live super busy lives. And when you do have common interests with your partner, double down on that. And really, that is a great way to connect. It's a subject matter you both know a bit about. And I guess it gets your brain working and it gets your brain connecting. So I really like that one as well. Okay, so there are a heap of different type of bids, as you can see. And hopefully you've identified some of the ones that you make frequently with your partner, or maybe the ones your partner make frequently with you. And you didn't realize that perhaps they were making a bit of connection, or at the time you might have, but I was too busy, or I had the kids hanging off me, or I wasn't in the right head, you know, being really aware that, hey, they are just reaching out. They are just trying to connect with you. And it's really special having someone in your life who wants to actually connect to you. But what is actually most important is actually how we respond to those bids. And what I love about Gottman is he does really try simplify things, and so we're going to even try simplify this further and what we have here is three primary ways that people can respond to a bit of connection, and that's turning towards turning away or turning against. If your partner has made a bit of connection with you, the most positive and best thing you can do is turn towards them. And often that, and we mean it. You can physically turn towards them, but.
[00:22:25] Speaker B: Oh, I love that.
[00:22:26] Speaker A: What you need to do is actually mentally and emotionally turn towards your partner. So, for example, one of the first examples we got was, if your partner comes in and says, how was your day? They're making a bid to connect after they haven't seen you all day. And if you say, oh, babe, it was actually a real tough one, and something happened at work, I'm really struggling.
I don't really want to talk about right now, but I want to talk about it later. Thank you so much for asking. And give them a kiss that's turning towards them. Or you can actually talk more about, oh, actually, my boss was on my case because someone lost the Penske file. And she's like, oh, no, the Penske file. And it's like, yeah, that's right. That's the best type of file, and you don't want to lose it. So it was a really tough day at work. And so whether you build on that conversation or you just in that moment, acknowledge that your partner has reached out to you at the end of the day and they actually do care about what's going on in your life at work, not the fact that they've been doing all this other stuff at home or in their own jobs, that's turning towards someone.
[00:23:35] Speaker B: I just want to touch on the physical bit. You said you can actually physically turn towards them, and I think that's a great way. If you're not used to this habit, to begin it, because it cues your brain to refocus what we're looking at. We're going to be focusing more on. Right. Our eyes are so important, it's feeding messages to our brain. So turn physically towards the person, especially if you're not practiced in this, and just start paying attention to what they're saying and how you could respond to engage them.
[00:24:05] Speaker A: 100%. And if you're walking and down the corridor and you got your jacket and stuff, just say, no, sweet. I'd love to tell you. I'll be there in a minute. Hang up your jacket and your laptop and your coat and go meet them in the kitchen, or go meet them in the lounge room or start pouring a glass of wine and say, let's sit down at the table that's turning towards. But I love your idea. Actually physically turn towards them and you mentally will automatically start to do it as well.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: Absolutely. Another option. So turning towards, obviously, the best way we can possibly respond to a bit of affection. One of the ways that will not be successful is when we turn away from our partner. So this is really done in a way that can leave people feeling really neglected. It's when you barely engage them, if at all. Some people will completely ignore a partner as if they haven't heard them, which is a really hurtful way of turning away. But to be fair, a minimal engagement can be just as hurtful. It feels like the person doesn't care about your bid for connection, and it can look like barely looking up from your phone or a nod without any real engagement.
[00:25:15] Speaker A: A grunt, usually guys.
[00:25:19] Speaker B: It creates feelings of rejection and it reduces emotional intimacy. You do not feel connected to that person and emotionally intimate with them. When that person isn't engaging you, they aren't physically or mentally or emotionally connecting with you in that moment. It can also leave a person or a partner feeling really undervalued, like they're not worthwhile of your time, which is a really sad place for your partner. A really sad way for your partner to feel, given that they should be your number one person. They are your number one person. And if we repeat this behavior, if we consistently turn away, it affects the relationship in a detrimental way. It will weaken and it will damage the relationship long term.
[00:26:06] Speaker A: Yeah. And you might think that you're doing no damage by, you're not being negative, you're just, maybe I'm too busy. I've got my head in something else. I'm focused on my work.
I'm doom scrolling or I'm looking at my emails. But really, the best way to look at it is if you're not turning towards your partner, you are actually turning away from them.
[00:26:27] Speaker B: Yes. Good rule. Love that. And the last option, the last way, I guess, is actually turning against this is a really important one to discuss. When we say turning against, it means that you respond with some sort of irritation or frustration that you're being engaged. So, for example, your partner comes to you and says, oh, I can't decide whether to go with blinds or curtains for this space. And you think, I don't care. And you say something like, why can't you make your own decisions?
It's a hurtful response. It immediately raises the sense of hostility in the relationship and it can cause conflict. It often causes conflict because not only is the partner feeling rejected, but you've come at them with some hostility. So that raises their sense of stress and anxiety in the situation as well. This particular type of response to bit of affection can also really lead to a sense of resentment in the partnership, as if that person doesn't get me, we are no longer on the same page, and that can often erode trust in the longer term, if I don't feel connected to that person, and even worse, I feel like they don't know me, I don't trust that person. We're no longer a team. We're no longer a unit working together. So the longer this would go on, the more toxic it can become to a relationship.
[00:27:49] Speaker A: Yeah. And you can see how this works when you actually notice that these are bids of connection. Okay, so I'm turning towards you. I want to connect. I'm turning away from you. I can't be bothered. I'm turning against you. How dare you connect with me? What are you trying to do? And you can see the impact that would have on the other person. So, of course, one of the reasons we want to do this and try always to turn towards our partner is because over time, this really builds up a really strong culture in the relationship. You recognize what your partner is trying to do, that they are trying to connect with you, and you start to respond more positively to each other's bids. And so you find that you actually have a better communication ongoing. So when conflicts do arise, you find that right in that moment, you're like, well, actually, I know that I often respond positively to my partner's bid, and they respond positively to me. That's the way we normally talk. That's the way we normally communicate. So when conflict arises, we're able to navigate it a bit more effectively because we've got more empathy for our partner. We understand that they're often trying to connect it several times throughout the day with us and in our busy lives, when there's so much going on, when all the noise from the kids, pressure on household costs, having someone in your life that's constantly trying to connect with you and say, you're not alone, I'm here for you. I want to be with you. It can give you some real solace to make you feel really good. So remember, try physically turn towards your partner, and when they're making a bit of connection, and you'll find that it will have a lot of gains in your relationship.
Awesome. So, Kim, what was your gold nugget from today's podcast?
[00:29:33] Speaker B: I think understanding bids and bringing your awareness to how many. It's really actually opened my mind to how many bids we make with each other in a day. I am so looking forward to actually because I obviously had heard of the concept of bids of connection, but I hadn't really delved into it until you brought it to the table to talk about on the podcast. And it really blew my mind getting into the detail of it, how much we bid for connection throughout the day and how often we miss an opportunity for connection. And on the flip side, obviously for us, how successful we've been as a couple when we have upped our bid of connection game.
[00:30:17] Speaker A: 100% agree with that. Mine is that yeah, many of you might not be turning against your partner's bids of connection, but how many are you turning towards? Maybe you're actually turning away because really, the best way to think about it is if you're not turning towards your partner's bit of affection, you're effectively turning away from it.
You're amazing. You've just spent quality time on your relationship.
[00:30:44] Speaker B: Feel like you're on a roll. If you want more living the team life relationship insights and conversations, head over to kimandroge.com where you can find all the show notes as well as tons of other relationship goodies.
[00:30:55] Speaker A: And if you liked today's episode, please hit subscribe or let another couple know where they can find us. It'll make them happy, and it'll make us really happy.
[00:31:03] Speaker B: Until next time, keep on living the team life.
